Help me get over my irrational fear of sending my children to the local state schools.

[thedolly]

ATM we live in a semi rural area and the DCs are at a Prep School. We are very happy with the school but the money to pay for it will run out eventually and I will end up working to pay for school fees.

Should we just stay put (in our very nice house) and brave the local state schools or move to a place where house prices are very expensive but the schools have a good reputation?

I have also posted this in AIBU as I feel I need a good kick up the backside.

Has anyone gone from private to state? I suspect it is a bigger adjustment for the parents than the children.

Yes, I don't think they need to be earning a certain amount because often their parents can help them out.

myred, interesting about the work ethic. Tend to agree.

Thinking about it from my university friends most of whom went to independent schools and also many boarded, I am the only woman who has had children and continued to work. Most of them worked in the city, bagged a rich man and then stopped working. Most of them said that was their intention .

I did bag my man with money and it bored me stiff, so I got rid of him and his money and would rather pay my way. Dp earns less than me and is the one who is at home with dd. I would not wish to ever be dependant on a man ( or woman) for money.

Both dp and I come from very poor backgrounds where there was often not enough food to go around and have very strong work ethics. I live in fear of being plunged back into poverty but am not comfortable with a lot of money either .

Thanks for that TheBolter - it is great to have access via MN to such a wealth of experience.

BonsoirAnna - I'll play then

...does it have something to do with SAHM/WOHM?

I find it when years are taught together - this sometimes happens at ds's primary, though not in his year at the moment. However, last year's Yr 1 and Yr2 were taught together - I know a lot of the children who were in that class and all the parents are delighted with the way the year went, due to the teacher they had - she is AMAZING. And few of them were happy about it at the beginning.

It sounds to me though as if you will be happier if you work to pay school fees.

I am slightly biased in that I think private to state can be quite hard based on some family experiences.

Oh yes choosy, the transition can be a bit bumpy... I remember when I started at state. I was soooo desperate to be cool and to fit in.... then without thinking I asked a girl if she'd done her Geography 'prep' and she looked at me (Whaaaa??) as if I was a total freakoid.

Was soooo mortified.

My father's reaction has amused me recently. He went to some prep school or other, and then Radley College as did all the males in his family for generations. It was just What You Did. So DB and I were sent to private schools because it would never have occurred to them to rely on the 'maintained' sector. He carried all the usual prejudices about the state sector being dreadful and full of out of control thuggish children. He has been in turn delighted by my DC's primary school, amazed by DS#1's secondary school and shocked to the core by the politeness and friendliness of DS#1's friends. A huge number of assumptions overturned. Thankfully he is open-minded enough to accept that he may have been wrong.

... and is quite possibly wincing at the thought of the lovely shiny Porsche he would now be driving had he been a little less prejudiced too Orm.

Yes, I agree with all you - basically, as you go up the socio-economic ladder, you have more extra cash for a comfortable lifestyle and that includes having one parent, usually the mother, be a SAHM who can devote herself to the comforts of her family and home. Ex-private school pupils are by definition more likely to be in the highest socio-economic groups.

Anyway, the important point to conclude from this is that if ex-state school pupils do better career wise, this is not necessarily because they have received a better education than ex-private school pupils but rather because of different priorities deriving from different socio-economic groups.

Indeed bolter! In fact mum has sometimes had a little moan about how we were always broke when DB and I were little. Dad had to cancel his order for a Morgan (never a Porsche!!) because the price went up too much - I am sure he was thinking of all those Ks spent on school fees

Ormirian.

Well, I agree that on the whole there is a raft of young women passing through public schools (esp the top ones) every year with an unrealistic attitude to work and money. But at the same time for every one of these pampered princesses there is also another whose parents have had to fight tooth and nail to keep on paying for their child.

I think things may shift a little nowadays... house prices are higher therefore many women have to work. State schools are considered so poor now in some areas that the only option available for some is to send their child to an indie school.

A lot of mothers are having to work to afford it (my own mum did in fact) and maybe this will drum in an even greater 'must work' ethic to some privately educated children. Because when both parents are working hard to pay for basics such as getting an education you must also be affected by the importance of it. I know I was.

My mum had to work to pay for my fees, and as a consequence we were always broke (our first family holiday was when I was thirteen!) so still today I have a massively strong work ethic. I feel guilty if I'm not working and I feel a huge urge to keep busy and keep using my brain, otherwise I get a bit depressed and am prone to sinking into apathy.

I think that people get affected by their experiences in different ways. I know quite a lot of women in my generation whose parents both worked FT who clearly didn't want their childhood experience for their own children but wanted to be more present in their lives. So their ambition became to marry a high-earning DH so that they had more choices about their family's lifestyle. You can have an "overly-enthusiastic" work ethic, if you like, that puts your children off!

I imagine there is some truth to more women being at home if they are privately educated because they marry wealthy men.

Although as someone who is from an extended family where all the women are privately educated but choose to have specialised careers - writers, specialist doctors etc. I am very glad they kept going. They are good role models in our family.

However they do all have careers which are flexible and not tied to an office desk 8-10 hours a day.

MarshaBrady - I think that is also true. Women from better off families often have more time/money/leisure to develop more niche/specialised interests and careers.

I do think they are in the best / lovely position: To have the education, intelligence and passion in an interesting area plus a wealthy and supportive husband - who usually is not overworked or unhappy because they too choose something they love doing -and to weave it all into family life.

Sounds good to me!

Though I'm not entirely convinced it's quite as rosy as you make it sound, yes, it certainly beats being tied to an office desk week in, week out (why any woman ever aspired to that life, beyond purely financial motivations, remains a mystery to me!).

Bonsoir I was a SAHM for those reasons - wanted to be more involved with my dcs than my mother was with us but after five years I must admit I got bored. I am lucky enough to have found a pt (and pretty well paid) flexible job that fits in well with family life. If I hadn't found this job I would probably still be planning to return to work one day because the reality was that as a SAHM I felt guilty for not working or bringing money into the household. Also my mum really drummed into me the importance of financial independence from quite a young age. I remember her sitting me down and 'telling' (!) me that I must NEVER rely on a man for money.

Veering slightly OT here, but as you say every experience is different. Perhaps it's less a case of private education affecting a woman's work ethics and more a case of family values. There just happen to be a lot of children from wealthy backgrounds at privet school.

Don't forget there are also a lot of wealthy children being sent to state school too, many of whom will grow into SAHMs.

Oh I agree in theory marsha - but I'm sure for many people it's more complex than that.

I've known some women who marry a wealthy man, and a few years down the line, are bored and frustrated. If their earning potential is way below their husband's, they can often feel it's pointless for them to work. And there are only so many coffee mornings and gym visits you can take!!

I think it's great to have choice and control in your life, because there's a lot of evidence to show that these are the keys to happiness and fulfilment, but I have seen too many frustrated and resentful private school mothers to think they've found the answer!!

Like I said, I think that different socio-economic groups have different priorities (= family values) and that there is a high degree of overlap between the privately educated and SAHM because both are about offering a high-quality lifestyle to children/mothers.

The couple in the family am I thinking about (surgeon/doctor) do seem on the outside to have cracked the problem of what to do as a woman / family which is satisfying for everyone.

I do see a difference between my mother (sahm) and someone who is held up in esteem in her own profession.

If I could choose a path it would be like theirs. But hey, you're right might not be that rosy really at all.

Oh I agree with you Violethill.

I do not want a life of gym visits or coffee breaks blurgh (but then I only have one child so far who goes to nursery part time, so am not too tired).

I want a life that is interesting and flexible, the thing to aim for imo.

I don't think that intelligent SAHMs spend their lives at the gym or having coffee! They are more likely to invest very heavily in their children's education, supporting their husband's career (remember, in many senior jobs people cannot confide in work colleagues) and in their own cerebral type hobbies, as well as just generally ensuring the family has a comfortable and interesting life (organising great holidays, having friends to stay etc).

Oh you'd be surprised at how many coffee mornings some SAHMs I know get through!!

Obviously all of the above are perfectly possible too - though you don't need to be a SAHM to do them, most of the mothers I know work, and we all invest in our children's education, organise holidays, weekend activities etc, oh and even fit in cooking and so on! You really don't need to have one partner give up their career to do those things.

On another note, I think one of the downsides of having too much time on your hands to fill, is that some mothers then turn into those dreadful 'helicopter' parents, who hover over every detail of their children's lives and don't allow them any space to be their own person.

It's all about balance. A healthy dose of benign neglect - allowing a child to work things out for themself, to take intiative and responsibility, rather than thinking we ought to be controlling every aspect of their lives, is a positive thing.

I'm sure English women manage to work and to invest heavily in their families! It's just the French ones who seem to think that work is some kind of excuse to ignore their children.

There is a fabulously shocking company here in Paris that sends tutors round to family homes to do homework with the children. Parents need never, ever even meet with the company, let alone the tutor - it can all be arranged over the telephone and the parents need never meet the person who does homework with their children!

So agree with all of Violethill's last few posts.

Another thing I've noticed is that it's the SAHMs who stand around the car park gossiping after the drop off. I have heard from a couple of close sources (God I sound like a tabloid reporter!) that very often the gossip transcends into bitchiness and there's a fair degree of glossed over in-fighting going on among them too. It's certainly a case of the SAHMs 'ruling the school' not just on the PTA-type organisation front but also on the social scene. I often joke to dh that they are all frustrated ex-board members needing an alpha outlet!