How much influence to you really think you have over your DC's future?

[faraday]

Had an interesting w/e with an old, pre- children friend. We get on like a house on fire except for the issue of education.

I genuinely feel you'd be hard pressed to meet someone who feels she has her hand so totally on the rudder of her DSs future! They are Y4 and 6.

Her DSs are both being privately prepped. After almost 4 years for her DS1, I SO can't see what she's buying that MY DS1, 11 months younger doesn't get (state, but perhaps in a -ahem- 'nicer' area?). BUT I am almost shocked at the zeal of her belief that she can mould and shape her DSs future through their barely affordable education... (about to be 13K pa for DS1 as he enters Y7!!).

Now, my cards on the table: I cannot deny that it irks me that her ability to afford the 11K pa fees for her 2 x DSs has been 'won' on the back of one of our erstwhile 'leading banks' bonus scheme (ie the small classes, the spoon feeding, the individual attention). And it IS true that that 'bonus' largesse is in seriously short supply right now- to the extent of possibly (whisper) redundancy. She readily 'recognises' her 'cosseted' DSs inability to function outside the private sector (increasingly true as they get older) which is why they DH and her, like many, will move heaven and earth to keep them there- though I felt the idea that the school's 'charity status' will fund the next 5 years of DS1's ed and 7 years of DS2's was perhaps a little optimistic, SHOULD DH lose his job...

BUT the thing is, my friend- and she is, before I get the barbed 'How dare' you call her a friend yet not support every outer- edged fantasy she embarks on?- BUT she readily also says she feels her mother 'failed' her for not 'pushing' her at school thus she feels she was destined for far greater things in life... but thing is, she's now 40- and has done nothing (that SHE'D count as achievements as there isn't always a certificate attached!) SINCE. She regards her career (same as mine) as a little job she pootles at whilst her DH does the REAL work (ie earns the big money).

She admitted to me this w/e that she is 'ludicrously ambitious' for her DSs...

DOES 13K a year guarantee that?? The boys meeting her expectations? IS that reasonable? Or am I deluded?

My feeling is that her DSs aren't being 'educated', they're being 'trained'- for 'well paid/non-minion' jobs. I kind of like the idea that I DON'T have absolute mastery over what my DSs are doing in school, who they associate with, what ideas are being introduced- and that includes ideas I'm not 100% happy with!

SHOULD I or even COULD I have any more influence over DSs who are just beginning to flex the wings of puberty? Who's under an illusion? My friend for feeling she's buying control or me with my laissez faire?!

ah but the thing Xenia forgets is that there are some parents who were state educated who send their children to private schools. The parents in private schools may not have high IQs - they may be hard working builders, plumbers, hoteliers etc.

There are also privately educated people with high IQs who send their DCs to state schools. Several millionaire accountant families in DS' state school.

I met DH at a local choral society.

but can they sing happywomble? Can they sing?

Maybe they can't sing mrz, but at least privately educated parents will sing off key with better accents!

But what if the privately educated musically gifted parents send their DCs to state schools. The private school parents choirs will miss out..

Lots of doctors and lawyers at my DCs state school, not sure if they can sing though....

Privately educated parents who make their career out of music probably won't earn enough to privately educate their own children.

Performing arts like music or drama often barely pay every day bills.

Prehaps another example of a poor but interesting career choice.

That's true Reallytired my mother's cousin was a professional opera singer and my grandmother had to support her and her family ... pity really she would have done well in the choir.

If you have any sense you make your money and you sing on the side.
Many private schools cater for the rather thick child in very small classes but the kind of school I wanted was where most children don't get in as they are too thick.

And of course there are some pretty common parents in the private sector. A boy in my son's class even says haitch not aitch. They tend not to be in the choir... and now I'm sending myself up. I'm not being very serious except to say I do think if you can afford it you can get a good education in the privaet sector and our private schools unlike our staet schools are copied the world over as often the best model of school on the planet. We are very lucky to have them.

I agree with VH's point about parental aspirations. My mother was obsessed with me going to Oxford. I always found this odd as she was a SAHM and always warned me about the stupidity of attempting to 'have it all.' I felt under huge amounts of pressure and dropped out of my A levels.

The following year my mother did a course and then went to Oxford to pursue a postgraduate qualification. She then got a career and became much happier.

I got to a different university a few years later, and my mother was not bothered as SHE had fulfilled HER Oxford ambitions.

In answer to the OP; I think you can give your children every opportunity, but it is up to the child to make the most of it. Your friend seems to be giving the children good opportunities, but from what you have said I don't get the impression she is pushing them into any overly specific direction, so I can't see the problem.

Well done to your mother Milly, it just goes to prove that I was right and these pushy mothers could go and achieve their own ambitions and leave their DCs free to find their own.

'I am happy to pay but then I made sure I picked a career where I could afford to do that. Plenty of women don't bother to do that and then if they can't afford fees it's their own fault in a sense because they made unwise career decisions earlier or stupidly gave up work to have children to rely on male earnings which are not large enough to fund fees at good schools.'

I disagree strongly Xenia.
I didn't make an unwise career choice and money is way down my list, job satisfaction comes first. Bankers may have had huge bonuses in the past but the job itself would bore me rigid and I wouldn't want to do it for any amount of money.
I gave up work to be a SAHM and those years were priceless, I have had them and no one could take them away. I would have hated to pay someone else to have all the pleasure that should have been mine.
I know perfectly well that it wouldn't suit everyone-and I wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same as me-however I do get fed up with being told that the only wise choice is a job that pays school fees.

There is an assumption that anyone who sends their DC to a state comprehensive has no ambitions for them and that they won't mix with DC who have high ambitions. This it total rubbish!
I live in a very affluent area-the comprehensive has a large upper end who have high ambition, (and I can assure you that the parents do-they are in high powered jobs themselves). They regularly send DCs to Oxbridge.
Private education has its fair share of drop outs and it is well known that 'the posher the school the harder the drugs'. I know that the school nurse in my nearest private school is busy giving the morning after pill to girls. Of course this is only a minority, as it is in the state school-I am just pointing out that if you pay the money you are not immune from problems.

I like state schools, I want my DCs to mix with all sorts and if I did have money as my top priority for a career I would still choose a state school,as long as it was a good one and my DC was happy in it.

I have three children in a private school. Although the class sizes are small and the level of education is great I do wonder if I made the right choice.

My local primary round 2 mins walk recently got outstanding in every area.

But that aside, I doubt very much whether a state or private education will make much diff to ds1 as he is very laid back to the point he is horizontal.

If he dosent buck his ideas up he will not get into year 7 when the time comes. I have told him this and this his choice. Although, I have never told the dc that they go to a private school and that we pay for their education, that is our choice not theres.

So, does private education guarantee success. I dont think so, it depends on the child.

I think cba, your child if he's laid back in private school could well be naughty and disruptive in state school where there are more children and less teacher attention to ensure all he does is be horizontal.
Do the children not know they go to private school at all ?
I've always told mine that we were paying (they only went for reception and year 1) and goodness knows the school made the point of how lucky they all were.

no, they dont know at all. I am sure as they get older they will here it from others. The reason why we have never said anything is, it is our choice to send them and there is an alternative which dosent cost anything and can be equally as good. I also dont believe that a child going to private school makes them better.

The reason why we went the private route as because of ds1. I felt that in a class of 30 if he would have either a. been very withdrawn and just left to coast along - he can be very quiet, or b. he would have turned into the class clown to overcome the quiteness and been lead astray.

sorrento, also the school, as far as I am aware dont mention it, I would not be happy if they did. Like I say, private education does not make people better than others.

Gosh well nobody said going to a private school makes a person better than another, mine are now at state school so I would hardly share that sentiment would I.
But what i felt was important, was that the school made a point of telling the children not everyone has the opportunities you have so don't blow it, from age 5 onwards.

sorrento, i agree with you, that is what i was trying to put across. Unfortunately I have come across many a parent at dc school who think otherwise, obviously I give them a real wide berth

But cba, I find it's actually worse in the state sector, but that's just my experience, a snottier bunch of women you'd struggle to find and it's a bloody church school too

Just popping in to cackle at Xenia for a moment.

do you know sorrento, wherever you go there are people like that. What I dont understand is, if they feel like that why cant they just keep their bloody mouths shut?

Perhaps we should create our own school for
children of like minded parents.

The mumsnet school of excellence, minus fruit shoots or sausage rolls, where you can line up every morning to be judged or told you are not being unreasonable I'd never get in

We all have vices so we could turn a blind eye to the odd fruit shoot and sausage roll, and have a bag of lentils in your handbag

reallytired - thats me you are talking about there!

Xenia - are you really for real???You have to be some sort of creation, surely???

I think I'm real. What bits that wrote were unreal? I like selective single sex education. I like women to pursue careers because far too many drop out and we really do not have enough women in positions of power in this country. I like the softer elements of private schools too like the grounds and other parents, carpet on the floors etc etc but the eseence of what I've paid for (and I've been paying fees since I was 25 for 22 years.