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Permanent exclusion from high school

244 replies

Deeg1 · 18/07/2026 12:50

Hi looking for some extra advice my child been in a fight outside of school over the weekend and not in uniform. The latter part of the fight has been videoed which only shows my child getter the better of the other child. The other pupil approached my child first and made horrible threats and then a fight erupted . There is no evidence to show who started it. However the other pupil has done a statement and showed video and my child has been excluded permanently in less than an hour and without my child having their say or a statement. Other witness statements were taken after the decision is made. Some statements have been interfered with and input by a couple of teachers. There was no investigation prior to the decision and still no statement from my child. After sending notification to headmaster to retract as I felt it was procedurally unfair I was told of if I wanted they would retract but only if I was agreeable to a managed permanent transfer to another school. It has been put on record assaulting another pupil with no evidence of how it started. My child is achieving academically well at school and has glowing reports at parents evening. She gets detentions and things but nothing really serious. It’s set at the moment to go before governors to decide but I just feel the school have been so underhanded with the way it has conducted it. Also the other pupil in question is always in isolation and not exactly a role model pupil. Any body else been through anything similar thanks in advance

OP posts:
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disturbia · 20/07/2026 07:01

disturbia · 20/07/2026 06:54

How did they lose the fight was it as a result of an assault?

I have read all the posts now so have the answer

ByRealLemonFox · 20/07/2026 07:16

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 19/07/2026 23:29

@ByRealLemonFox Is it not on web sites? It should be. The op cannot just contact the governors! Are you on an exclusion panel? There’s a timetable and principles of natural justice the head and governors must legally follow. The clerk arranges the meetings in accordance with the law.

The policies should be on the school websites but if not you can ask for them. 100% the OP can just contact the governors by following the sxhools complaints procedure. This is normally the head teacher 1st and the straight to governors if issues are not resolved. Then a series of events before exclusion panel.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 20/07/2026 08:10

@ByRealLemonFox Yes I know how complaints procedures work and actually I think if the complaint is about the head, the policy circumvents the head. However this doesn’t seem to have any effect as the governors wanted this ethos.

JohnofWessex · 20/07/2026 08:12

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 19/07/2026 22:15

@JohnofWessex Because the head lawfully can be. The attached is the latest government guidance.

Thanks

So the first hurdle to be overcome is that the exclusion must be reasonable, fair & proportionate

Assuming no actual 'spillover' into school life thats the first test that needs to be adressed.

TeachWithMissM · 20/07/2026 08:23

You need to carefully read the school’s exclusion policy and then you can appeal it through the correct channels (which you should have been informed of on her exclusion letter). There are a few things you mention in your post though which I would not be bringing up at appeal - the first is that the other child started it, because (a) it doesn’t matter who started it, and (b) I’m imagining at this point you only have your daughters word for that. I also wouldn’t be arguing that teachers have interfered with witness statements unless you have concrete evidence of that because I suspect it is very very unlikely to be true. I would also avoid bringing the other pupil into your appeal at all - you have said that the video shows your daughter getting the better of the other student so I would be very away that the other student’s family could take the video to police and push for a charge if it looks one-sided at the time the video is taken. This may even already be going on behind the scenes, and it may be the case that the school have told the other girl’s family that they will PEX to prevent them from making a police report.

in your position, I would definitely be considering the managed move. Other students now know that your daughter is easy to wind up and incite into a fight, and I can imagine that a couple more might try this with her. A managed move will be a chance for a totally fresh start with no behaviour record which may be best

Sandysandyfeet · 20/07/2026 08:27

‘…then my daughter reacted and they was both fighting each other and as the boy holding the camera comes running up videoing shows my daughter get her on the floor and as soon as the other girls stops fighting back my daughter gets off her …’

This is why she has been expelled- you still haven’t said how she reacted (was it a punch or slap?) but it was clearly violent enough to knock the other girl to the floor and your daughter was ‘on’ her at some point - this is an unacceptable level of force and an overreaction. Your only sensible course would have been huge contrition, admittance of fault and an offer to seek some anger management counselling (and a massive bollocking from you). Going down the ‘she started it’ witness statements were tampered with etc line suggests that neither you nor you dd really think she did anything wrong (her text to the other girl may be seen as trying to avoid getting into trouble) and that is a problem. Someone suggested you contact the police - I think this would be very unwise.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 20/07/2026 08:35

@JohnofWessex School life is school
pupils. There’s no grounds to fight the exclusion based on it being away from school. These are pupils of the school. The head is clearing out and making a stand and it’s not unusual.

Sereine · 20/07/2026 09:18

Willowskyblue · 18/07/2026 15:26

The Head is offering your child a way out of this - don’t disregard the value of a permanent managed move. With a PEX on their record, you will find it nigh on impossible to find a place elsewhere.

There is no such thing as a permanent managed move. By its nature, a managed move is essentially experimental and it only becomes permanent if it is seen to be working well in the interests of the child concerned.

Schools with vacancies are not allowed by law to refuse places to applicants, even if they have been permanently excluded.

Sereine · 20/07/2026 09:19

It is not permitted for headteacher to be in the room on their own with the governors once they have started their deliberations

Just to be accurate, it is not permitted for the headteacher to be in the room on their own with the governors at any point during the process.

Sereine · 20/07/2026 09:25

GarlicBiscuits · 19/07/2026 22:35

Op, if you want practical actionable advice, then you need to tell us the full story, even the bits that go against your daughter. There are lots of knowledgeable people here who can help you if you do this.

Not really. That will just give all the vultures the opportunity to pick over OP's daughter's actions and blame OP for being a bad parent, it's what MN does.. It's much better to go to one of sources of help I have posted.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/07/2026 09:28

TwinklySquid · 19/07/2026 22:33

It’s how you say it. If you say “the staff have rigged this “ etc, you’ll come across mad. Instead you say “ I don’t feel my daughter has been treated fairly. I am worried the statements were not taken in the most professional manner.”

I couldn't agree more, TwinklySquid, but looking at OP's phraseology it seems the chances of the second option are pretty slim

And as others have said, there's still no detail on how the DD "got the other pupil on the floor" or how she came to stop fighting. I'm not saying this actually happened, but for all we know she could have been unconscious - whhich would certainly explain the (unlikely) scenario of neither saying anything to the other as they separated

Deeg1 · 20/07/2026 10:08

Passingthrough123 · 19/07/2026 20:22

So the girl said something, your DD got right up in her face, the girl pushed your DD to make her step back, and then your DD attacked her until they were on the ground, with your DD on top, and your DD was hitting and slapping the girl until she stopped fighting back?

Yeah, that doesn't look good for your DD. That is not a proportionate response to someone saying something or self defence.

No wrong she said the most disturbing evil statement to my daughter and the girl got in my daughters face and pushed her and then a fight erupted and they was hitting each other and as I say when they fell onto the floor and the girl stop fighting then my daughter got up and so did she and they just walked off in different directions

OP posts:
Sandysandyfeet · 20/07/2026 10:15

What did she say? What do you mean by ‘a fight erupted’ - the other girl shoved and your dd punched? People may give you wrong advice based on limited info - eg one posters advised you to speak to the police - not a good idea if your dd was the aggressor, or is shown to be using disproportionate force in the video!! It’s also important that you realise that what your dd tells you will be her version and you shouldn’t take it as being 100% accurate.

Deeg1 · 20/07/2026 10:16

Happyjoe · 19/07/2026 17:39

My friends daughter was excluded, she challenged it. They'd not gone through the proper protocols and was allowed to remain at the school - and the head teacher got told off.
You need to fight it. Also, how does a school control over what happens out of school and not in uniform?

Was your friends child excluded for a fight? I know that was my thoughts with it being out of school but apparently they can

OP posts:
Deeg1 · 20/07/2026 10:23

Sereine · 20/07/2026 09:22

OP, you need to contact the School Exclusion Project or the School Inclusion Project for full advice and help with hearings before the governors and the IEP.

Thank you for advice but school exclusions project is now closed until 21st sept which I presume is because of summer holidays and the governors review is before that date

OP posts:
Willowskyblue · 20/07/2026 10:24

Sereine · 20/07/2026 09:18

There is no such thing as a permanent managed move. By its nature, a managed move is essentially experimental and it only becomes permanent if it is seen to be working well in the interests of the child concerned.

Schools with vacancies are not allowed by law to refuse places to applicants, even if they have been permanently excluded.

Our local authority encourages permanent off site direction as a way of a child avoiding a PEX on their record. The move is to the local PRU and the child is then placed at a mainstream school further down the line.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 20/07/2026 10:28

Deeg1 · 18/07/2026 16:45

He already made a decision before doing a full investigation and still doesn’t know my daughter’s version of events . She has done a statement which I will provide to the governors. She is 14 61/2 stone and she is smaller than the other girl. It’s just that by the time it is videoed that my daughter is getting the better of the other girl and then she stops fighting her and as soon as she does my daughter stops and they both just walk away. It was literally no more than about 10 to 15 seconds

The size of your daughter makes no difference. I’ve been in fights (only a couple!) with girls bigger than me when I was that size.

TheEdgyZebra · 20/07/2026 10:31

Hi,

(Apologies in advance for typos - writing on a phone)

I’ve read through all of this and wanted to offer my thoughts from the viewpoint of someone who has both served as a school governor (including on disciplinary panels) and as a senior member of staff in a school who has specific responsibility for discipline and has been involved in permanent exclusion on several occasions.

Firstly the emotional bit - despite what many may think, schools do not want to ‘get rid of’ kids. We hate permanently excluding. Quite aside from the fact that it’s a massive pain procedurally and creates huge amounts of work, it’s just deeply unpleasant. It makes us feel like we’ve failed, and sitting in the room with kids and parents to tell them that this is the end of the journey (I’ve had to do it too many times) is just horrible. The worst bit of all is that we then feel guilty for being sad about it as we know that no matter how hard the conversation is for us, it’s far harder for the kids and parents sat across from us. It is an absolute lose-lose situation but unfortunately one that is sometimes needed. We always want what is best for a child and as painful as it may be, sometimes that is to say goodbye.

The other thing about this is that it never, ever comes at a ‘good’ time. In an ideal world it would come along early in a school career, early in term, where there’s loads of time to do everything perfectly by the book and with loads of time to sit around and talk about it. If only! Reading into this situation, OP describes her daughter as having been at the school for 3 years and is 14. Assuming having started in year 7 and being in the normal school year then this means this has come along right at the end of year 9, just ahead of the summer holidays when she’s starting GCSEs in September. That’s rubbish timing. Rightly or wrongly from a procedural point of view the school won’t want to keep this hanging over her and you for 6 weeks and won’t want her having uncertainty going into the new school year with a potential move during term 1 of GCSEs. They’re trying to wrap this up quickly to give everyone closure and your daughter time to process and make a fresh start of it in September.

Here’s the tricky bit. In all honesty, while trying to do the right thing, they probably have cut corners a little bit and if you really want to pick at that you of course have every right to do so. From what you’re describing here you may even have a case, although I suspect more legwork has been done in the background than you’re aware of - for starters I suspect the Head had seen evidence over the weekend and had phoned the chair of governors prior to Monday morning. The big question I would ask though is what is actually in the best interests of your child? Is months of uncertainty in her best interests? Is the prospect of a permanent exclusion going to help her down the line? Is it better to cut loses now, move over the summer and start again fresh in September? I get that she has friends at the school etc and this is of course a huge factor, but even if you win the appeal is the relationship with the school now damaged to the point that she’ll feel she on eggshells for 2 years? I’m sure you already are and therefore say this only for emphasis, please take a step back and look at the big picture to put your daughters needs first.

Here comes the difficult bit to hear but I think you need to hear it. I say this not to be mean or to try and back up the school (I have no idea which school it is and clearly don’t have all the facts available to them to comment on whether they’ve got this right or not) but because I’ve seen this play out so many times elsewhere….

You and your daughter have been through a horrible experience. Of course you have. Even when it’s clear cut and there’s no grounds for debate it is still an awful experience to be on the receiving end of permanent exclusion. It will have been a shock, you’ll feel desperate, you’ll feel protective, and fight or flight will be kicking in. As such, you’re not thinking logically or rationally and I’m afraid that shows in much of how you’re describing things here, so to address them directly:

  • you’re not being blackmailed through the offer of a managed move. They’re actually trying to help you and your daughter out. Of course the school don’t want to have to go through with the permanent exclusion and would rather you take the ‘easy option’ but I promise, as someone who has been on the other side of this, that it’s not because they realise they’ve messed up and are backpedaling, it’s because they want to help your child.
  • it doesn’t matter how great your child is academically. It has no bearing on this. I’ve permanently excluded a kid on track for straight 9s.
  • it doesn’t matter that your teachers have said nice things in reports and parents evenings. This also doesn’t back up the idea that everything has been fine from a behavioural point of view previously. In not saying that your daughter is a ‘naughty kid’ but a lot of us like the naughty kids and will say encouraging things about them especially if they behave well in our lessons when we know they can be a pain elsewhere.
  • the other girls track record is irrelevant and her sanction will not be shared with you and nor should it.
  • Recording a member of staff without consent is awful. We wouldn’t do it to you, so don’t do it to us. I’ll give you a pass for the reasons described above, but irrespective of the legality it is a huge breach of trust and you should delete it immediately and apologise if appropriate. Trust me, if they know you’ve done it it’ll cause real damage, but apologising would go a long way.
  • even in the strictest schools, not all kids get detentions. I work in a very strict school. About 80% have never had a detention and only about 7% have ever had more than one. I can tell you that plenty of parents with children within that 7% would refuse to accept that it’s only 7%.
  • the most difficult one of all… even with the additional info you’ve given about the fight itself, you could drive a bus thorough what’s missing. You’ve described an initial confrontation where your daughter is very much the victim. This was not however a ‘fight’. You’ve then described them being on the floor with your daughter on top after they’ve both been fighting. What happened in the middle? How did it actually escalate into a fight? Who took the first swing? How did the other girl end up on the floor with your daughter on top? When the other girl pushed your daughter, you said she responded but you haven’t said how? Clearly I haven’t seen what happened, but I’ve seen enough similar videos to be pretty content in saying that you’ve missed out this middle bit for a reason because your daughter went from being victim to aggressor and massively escalated things. Was she provoked, yes. Should she have walked away, yes. Is that realistically really hard to do, of course also yes. The reality is though that if she’s massively escalated things and ‘got the better of’ the other girl by taking it from a confrontation to a physical fight where she’s ended up on top of the other girl, and there’s video evidence of it, then I’m not really sure how else you expect the school to respond?

I’m sorry you’re in this situation, and even more sorry for your daughter. I’m sure she’s a great kid and has just really messed up here. That’s really difficult and I’m sure it really hurts for both of you, but please, please take a step back, reflect open and honestly, and think about what the right next step is for her. Is it to keep fighting the school or, to borrow Gen Z/alpha parlance, should you just take the L?

Passingthrough123 · 20/07/2026 10:40

Deeg1 · 20/07/2026 10:08

No wrong she said the most disturbing evil statement to my daughter and the girl got in my daughters face and pushed her and then a fight erupted and they was hitting each other and as I say when they fell onto the floor and the girl stop fighting then my daughter got up and so did she and they just walked off in different directions

Okay, so your DD defending herself from the other girl's push could be construed as self-defence, but the fact she then started hitting the other girl and the video shows your DD was the dominant attacker while they were on the floor unfortunately will negate it. The other girl has presumably said in her statement, backed up by her friends, that your DD threw the first punch/slap – because it sounds like she did.

What was said to spark the fight won't be the focus of the exclusion, it's how your DD reacted to it that's the issue – and she did react with violence.

However, I do think she's been unfairly treated in the way the HT has excluded without due process. I just suspect the outcome would be the same even if it had been done correctly. If I were you, I'd focus on finding her a new school.

imip · 20/07/2026 10:44

It is not illegal to record a meeting with school if you do it for your own use. In fact, given parents are usually not in the position to make notes at the time, it can be helpful for correct note taking after the meeting.

TheEdgyZebra · 20/07/2026 10:47

imip · 20/07/2026 10:44

It is not illegal to record a meeting with school if you do it for your own use. In fact, given parents are usually not in the position to make notes at the time, it can be helpful for correct note taking after the meeting.

Nobody said it was illegal. Doing it without consent is pretty rubbish though. If you want to record a meeting then that’s fine if everyone consents. Many of mine are recorded so that AI can transcribe and take minutes, but only if everyone in the meeting is happy with that….

Wishingitwaswinter · 20/07/2026 11:01

Maube there's more than one video showing the fight and you've only seen the version your talking about. Maybe the other person went further to obtain cctv footage in the area. Someone throwing threats or words are just that, words. Your child hit out because of some words which isn't okay, physical violence is never acceptable nomatter what they say.

LemonTT · 20/07/2026 11:42

OP, I realise this is all raw and you want to advocate for your daughter and achieve the best outcome for her. I understand the desire to rush in and try to resolve all of this or make it go away. However you face weeks of uncertainty and I think you need to take a step back and think about what you want to achieve for her and how you go about it.

The most important thing you can do for your daughter now is to ensure her statement is complete and concise. She has been excluded because she assaulted another pupil. The evidence to support this decision is a video showing her on top of and fighting with another pupil. This video evidence may mean no further investigation into you daughters conduct is needed. There may be ongoing investigations into others involved in the fight or who were present at the incident. It is advisable for you and your daughter to not interfere with that investigation.

As another poster has pointed out, it would be worthwhile looking into the culture and ethics set down by the school governors. It will make a difference on how you defend your daughter if they have decided to have zero tolerance on fighting.

The guidance states the HT should take a statement from the expelled pupil but it doesn’t say he must. That means he can potentially defend the decision not to. I don’t know the process to advise on when the statement should be taken either or whether the panel can remake the same decision when in receipt of the statement.

You are concerned that the investigation staff have questioned and asked for clarification on statements like “a fight broke out”. You also use this type of passive language. It is right for investigators and the panel to seek clarity on statements like this. The allegation against your daughter is that she assaulted another pupil. An investigation into the whole incident will want to know did A assault B. It may also want to know if B assaulted A. All of which might be moot in your daughters can if the video shows her fighting.

You can ask for assurances that the school investigates the behaviour of the other pupil. As I said, they may well be doing that which is why the investigation continues. However I would expect investigators to seek clarity in obfuscations like a fight started or broke out. That isn’t sinister.

yikesss · 20/07/2026 13:24

Unfortunately I have been through similar, didnt end up with permanent exclusion although it was looking that way at first .. my advice would be to not minimise what happened and show the school its not behaviour you accept, whether you believe your daughter was wrong or not sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and do whats required