Permanent exclusion from high school

[Deeg1]

Hi looking for some extra advice my child been in a fight outside of school over the weekend and not in uniform. The latter part of the fight has been videoed which only shows my child getter the better of the other child. The other pupil approached my child first and made horrible threats and then a fight erupted . There is no evidence to show who started it. However the other pupil has done a statement and showed video and my child has been excluded permanently in less than an hour and without my child having their say or a statement. Other witness statements were taken after the decision is made. Some statements have been interfered with and input by a couple of teachers. There was no investigation prior to the decision and still no statement from my child. After sending notification to headmaster to retract as I felt it was procedurally unfair I was told of if I wanted they would retract but only if I was agreeable to a managed permanent transfer to another school. It has been put on record assaulting another pupil with no evidence of how it started. My child is achieving academically well at school and has glowing reports at parents evening. She gets detentions and things but nothing really serious. It’s set at the moment to go before governors to decide but I just feel the school have been so underhanded with the way it has conducted it. Also the other pupil in question is always in isolation and not exactly a role model pupil. Any body else been through anything similar thanks in advance

My daughter has accepted that she could of dealt with it better and when the girl got in her face and pushed her she should of walked away and she has genuinely felt remorse by her actions and even got a message to the girl within an hour and before school on the Sunday and this was before school got involved as like myself didn’t think it would be a school matter so she showed genuine remorse and has felt truly upset by the whole ordeal

It’s hard to judge as you are evading saying what your daughter actually did in response ri the push. It makes a huge difference.

Nothing will happen until September. Head, governors, LA will
all be aware that there must be a panel hearing within 15 school days of the PEX with papers out to all parties 5 days before that.

Thank you so much for this advice I really appreciate it. I’ve tried to get intouch with a company like the student unis that assist in these matters but they have closed now for summer until 21st sept but this is going to go before governors by then. I have spoken to a solicitor who has given advice too but it’s advice like yours that I am looking for with good experience with governors and the process and fairness that know a great deal on these matters as it is very stressful worrying time so thank you for responding

Pastoral secondary school staff member here.

I can almost promise you that she will not have been excluded for a single video on the end of the fight, statements going both ways from friends and with hardly any serious prior behaviour issues. Schools don't want to permanently exclude; it looks very bad for us, and despite what most people on the internet think, we care greatly for the future of all students.

I would strongly advise that you appeal. You won't be able to see all the videos they have on the account, but you can ask them to talk you through it, which is where they watch the video and tell you what they're seeing. As for doctoring statements, again I can almost promise you that teachers would never do such a thing as it just isn't in anybody's interests, especially not to remove a student who is mostly well behaved and thriving! That is a lot of work to do and a huge risk for staff already over worked and living on a knife edge - and for no reward.

As I say, permanent exclusion is the very last option and normally only for things like consistend behaviour issues or weapons. The only thing I can think that would cause this situation is if the other girl in the fight was on the floor, down and no threat and your daughter continued to beat her. In that cirumstance, I can see it happening.

Well apparently they don’t have to provide it until at least 5 days before governors meeting and that isn’t until sept now

Thank you so much for your advice I really appreciate it and will have a look at this

As they should get detention for being late to lesson or skipping the lunch queue! Cant believe you would think otherwise

Who videoed it and why

I suspect that there might be more footage that hasn't been shared with the school and is very relevant to the case

I suggest that you demand the school looking into exactly what footage exists and the motivation of whoever filmed the incident

From a speed read if the OPs comments I suggest that the Head is the person who needs permanent exclusion

My friends daughter was excluded, she challenged it. They'd not gone through the proper protocols and was allowed to remain at the school - and the head teacher got told off.
You need to fight it. Also, how does a school control over what happens out of school and not in uniform?

What exactly does "got the better of her" mean? You haven't answered that one

I am not interested in what you believe I have given a true account and just wanted advice on that. It would be of no help to me if I lied or I wouldn’t get the help I need and it wouldn’t assist me . I have evidence to back up what I have said and when I say teachers I mean school helpers and behaviour mentor that assisted with statements and they haven’t been taken correctly . One in particular girl who wasn’t sure what to write and just put a fight broke out the helper started to assist her and when she still sat not knowing what to put she told her to copy one that was on the table and I have that on a voice note that was sent to somebody else . If that girl didn’t know what to put or didn’t see it properly that she should of been told not to do a statement end of

Sadly yes, when parents openly declare that DTs are given for anything such as late for lessons or skipping lunch queue.....as if thats absolutely nothing.

I work in an AP. We have children who cannot manage in mainstream because of their needs/ehcps etc they usually do well with us......then we have the kids who have had no boundaries, parents dont value education, dont respect school and their rules, and these children struggle to achieve with us unless we get them young enough to break the cycle, earn a mutual respect and actually get them to follow rules and boundaries. The parents of these kids never change though.

Society gone down the pan.

I would be absolutely mortified if my child was fighting another girl outside or inside school. I managed my whole school journey without an DTs. My eldest has never had a negative point in her whole school journey let alone a DT. My 6 year old has finished year 2 with a certificate saying she has stayed on green (never needed telling off at all) for a whole school year.

@Deeg1 Advice? Accept the managed move to a different school. If your child is doing academically well (although I honestly feel there is something missing from your accounts) a PRU really is not the place for her.

We are the last line of education AFTER a pru hasnt worked

Video footage is usually shared at the hearing but we would usually invite parents and student to see it in school before then. But I’m talking about school cctv, I’ve not dealt with one with external footage.

The assailant lost the fight they had started

All of this doesn’t sound believable. Why would the teachers be in cahoots and a decision made so quickly. There is surly more to this.

PEX is not that easy and doesn’t happen glibly; there’s more to this somehow. Assuming you’re in England.

OP, if we take it at face value:

Assaulting another pupil is still an incredibly serious matter. Who started it is irrelevant. Your daughter is on video assaulting another pupil. Take the managed move.

OP please answer the multiple people asking you what your daughter did to 'get the better' of the other girl. What is your daughter actually shown doing in the video?

The fact that you won't answer this in detail doesn't look great.

This thread has made it to Facebook btw.

Ive not RTFT but Ipsea are brilliant for guidance and information:

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/permanent-exclusions

@Deeg1 it sounds like a huge overreaction, I hope you are able to get it sorted.

I'm fairly certain there's a whole lot more to this story!

OP - several pages in and you've still not explained what you meant when you said your daughter ‘got the better’ of the other girl. To me, that sounds fairly serious.

as your analysis is the result of reading while on speed, there is no need to consider your comment any further

Well done, that headteacher!

Brilliant school-keeping the children under control so that they can learn and punishing those who think they can take the piss by making a small infringement where they can.

Many parents would love to send their children to a school like this.

Perhaps you and other belligerent "I know moi rights" brigade could all bugger off to the sink school down the road while parents who value good behaviour and good learning could take your places.

Fancy think the teachers are all in a conspiracy. Instead, be ashamed that your child beat another child and glad that that child has not gone to the police, despite your daughter's texts to her, which I'm sure could be read in a very sinister light.

The head is not frightened of you and your dossier of "evidence"! Catch yourself on.