Permanent exclusion from high school

[Deeg1]

Hi looking for some extra advice my child been in a fight outside of school over the weekend and not in uniform. The latter part of the fight has been videoed which only shows my child getter the better of the other child. The other pupil approached my child first and made horrible threats and then a fight erupted . There is no evidence to show who started it. However the other pupil has done a statement and showed video and my child has been excluded permanently in less than an hour and without my child having their say or a statement. Other witness statements were taken after the decision is made. Some statements have been interfered with and input by a couple of teachers. There was no investigation prior to the decision and still no statement from my child. After sending notification to headmaster to retract as I felt it was procedurally unfair I was told of if I wanted they would retract but only if I was agreeable to a managed permanent transfer to another school. It has been put on record assaulting another pupil with no evidence of how it started. My child is achieving academically well at school and has glowing reports at parents evening. She gets detentions and things but nothing really serious. It’s set at the moment to go before governors to decide but I just feel the school have been so underhanded with the way it has conducted it. Also the other pupil in question is always in isolation and not exactly a role model pupil. Any body else been through anything similar thanks in advance

Speaking from lots experience here - governors who sit on PEX panels must absolutely carry out the role impartially and with care - taking account of all the policies and evidence. There’s a very specific legal test here that needs to be applied - the fight alone is a serious breach of behaviour policy but school must also show that the child staying at school harms the wellbeing and education of others. Governors need to hear your and the head’s evidence before they form a view.

OP - it’s not ok head made PEX without hearing your child’s side of the story - that’s a huge procedural fairness issue. If school is still open request all their paperwork and policies now before the summer and spend the holidays getting your ducks in a row. Take an advocate with you to the PEX meeting (a sensible friend) and if you’re in a uni city try the law dept’s pro bono community advice team (lots of unis have these). Read the govt advice in full and the school’s behaviour policy.

They legally have to have the voice of all parties, if your child has not been spoken to and had their voice heard, this is illegal, unless this is an independent school?

Here’s the guidance that lays out for Heads how schools are supposed to exclude children https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66be0d92c32366481ca4918a/Suspensions_and_permanent_exclusions_guidance.pdf

The head is supposed to have heard from all
pupils involved to make his decision. However, the guidance also makes clear that for physical violence against another student, heads can permanently exclude immediately. They are also expected to weigh up the impact on the excluded child.

you may find that interpreting the guidance strictly should just mean the other girl is also permanently excluded.

A managed move is supposed to be an alternative to exclusion but needs to have agreement from the family. It’s also initially for up to 12 weeks and the student should stay on the register/roll at their original
school. If the move doesn’t work out, the new school can ask the original
school to take the student back..

if the permanent exclusion goes ahead, the governors have to approve it. If that too is approved, there is an appeals process.

Coram charity have a specialist team who support processes and challenges in exclusions. Check them out here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66be0d92c32366481ca4918a/Suspensions_and_permanent_exclusions_guidance.pdf

Or even here: https://schoolexclusionshub.org.uk/

https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/school-exclusion/

there is lots of advise on education legal websites regarding the process for exclusion. Not being in uniform doesn’t matter if it involves a fight with another pupil. How seriously was the other pupil harmed and are the police involved?

exclusion doesn’t happen lightly and the LA and governors will get involved. Regardless of academic ability, has there been behaviour issues previously? I completely understand defending your daughter, but also help yourselves by considering all previous facts and incidents. Not starting something does t mean that serious harm and injuries were not sustained. retaliation is very different to self defence.

“She gets detentions and things”

Theres a whole back story in those five words.

I have been on a panel where we overturned the PEX and this was not the case. I can’t talk about the circumstances because of confidentiality but it was very complex and the panel deliberated for a significant amount of time before making our decision. Occasionally, schools make bad decisions or don’t follow proper procedures but in my experience, not often. Most of the panels I sat on were hard to do anything except confirm the decision because behaviour policies are written so tightly.

I will also say that managed moves are often used to avoid PEXs. However the receiving school can decide they don’t want the child quite easily and then it’s down to the school to formalise the PEX and go through the process.

So when your daughter was pushed could she have safely walked away or did she need to physically defend herself?

According to the OP the headteacher has already done this, telling "other parents, teachers and even pupils" that DD will never be going back to the school

TBH I don't find this very likely, but then I wasn't there to know - and neither will OP have been for much of it

@PuzzledandpissedoffI find it very hard to believe that any headteacher would do this.

so a push and then your DD ‘got the better of her’? Can you not see that your daughter majorly over reacted? You don’t appear to be recognising this - if you and your daughter can’t/wont see this then the school will not look well at it.

'but some teachers have manipulated some pupils when making statements even saying you must of seen who hit out first and when they say no it was just a fight they say you must of seen trying to put words into their mouths and one even said copy one of them others.'

How do you know this?

I must say I am v v surprised at this decision!! On a weekend and no uniform on. This is the first time I have ever heard of this happening ( in Scotland) .

I find it very hard to believe that any headteacher would do this

You're not alone, @Growlybear83, and when you add the staff allegedly encouraging pupils to falsify statements, a decision which happened in 40 minutes and hundred+ leaving late after detentions (how would anyone know that's why they behind others?) it all sounds very odd

I agree, which is why I don’t think OP is telling the (whole) truth. A 6.5 stone girl got the upside when attacked out of nowhere, and is very academically successful but permanently excluded within 50 mins.

Doesnt make sense, and the head wouldn’t want a very academically sucessdul pupil gone over a troublemaker, so there is for sure more behind the scenes op isn’t telling us. The head has given her a way out, and that isn’t blackmail, she should take it.

I think she has. Everyone seems to be missing this bit.

" Also she has been diagnosed with PMDD and so once a month for the lead upto it can become overwhelmed, overstimulated and the least thing can upset her."

For no fault of her own, the child sounds like she's a pain in the arse to manage for several days every month and the school will be happy to be rid of her. She given them an excuse to do that by over reacting with violence to being pushed, caught on camera.

The procedure is clearly wrong, but it doesn't seem entirely certain that the judgement is.

I was brought up never to hit back and defend myself. And I can say at times it did not help me as other kids saw me as a soft touch.
If you teach your child to hit back when hit, which OP feels is needed in these more dangerous times, then sadly they leads to consequences, and some of those consequences may seem unfair.
’Got the better of’ is worrying in itself.
The young daughter here sounds like she has been through a lot and is going through a fair bit.
But on balance, I wouldn’t want my daughter at the school if the head is so awful. She may have good teachers but if she’s bright she will get on well.
There will be some back story here - there always is. But if due process is not followed then it’s unfair.
The outcome may be the same but at least procedure would be recognised.
The moral of the story is, if someone hits you and you hit them back, harder, then you have to accept there are consequences. It’s the same for adults, too.

Sounds like the Head wanted to tie this all up before the summer holidays, so made a snap decision, hoping it would go away.
Look at the school policy about behaviour/exclusion etc. Check this has been correctly followed.
Then write down everything from your side - your DDs version of events and how the Head has behaved.
You put an appeal into the governors/appropriate people and keep fighting, as this sounds like a complete c*ck up.
I would also consider putting a formal complaint in against the Head. He sounds maverick and completely unsuitable for the job.
I personally would reconsider my child being in a school run by this Head, as it sounds a horrible environment to be in.

You don't PEx after one incident unless the other party was seriously injured or there was a weapon involved. The school can be involved if it involves students from their school. I'd be truthful if I were you as people who work in schools know what the protocol is when PEX a child. It's costly and takes weeks to sort. There's no was they'd base it on a couple of statements without your own child's in less than an hour.

But the headteacher will know that the governors MUST meet to consider the permanent exclusion within 15 school days whether or not the OP wants to contest it, so there’s no question of him trying to make a snap decision and hoping it will go away. It’s not a question of the OP appealing as such at this stage. The meeting with the governors must take place and she will be invited to attend. The meeting will go ahead even if she chooses not to take part. The appeal will come if the governors uphold the headteacher’s decision and will be made to an independent review panel.

That's not strictly true. Self-defence wouldn't be a mitigating factor because your DD got in the girl's face, she pushed her away and then your DD followed up by hitting her. Defending herself reasonably isn't hitting someone for saying something she didn't like.

But I get why the exclusion is so upsetting. To go from zero to being kicked out is extreme. Unless your DD has had some in-school exclusions? Or previous run-ins with this other pupil, accusations of bullying?

There has to be a reason that the HT has believed all the other witness accounts over your DD's.

Slightly different avenue..... But could you go to the police and get them involved because it happened at the weekend and is nothing really to do with the school? You'd like to think that they would investigate properly (ie both sides of the story and impartial witness statements).

In Scotland, children get free legal aid. I don't know where you live (seems to be England?) but would this be an option? Either to challenge the educational sanctions/proceedings and/or if you contact the police?

They can't do this. Go to the Local Authority. Governor's will be useless as it's summer break.

The minute you start saying the teachers have manipulated statements etc is the minute I don’t believe you. Your child is a good student who got into a fight against an awful student and you think that the teachers have made it look like you daughter was to blame? Why wouldn’t they want to keep the nice student and get rid of the awful student?

edit: I’d missed OP’s description of what happened. It absolutely isn’t self-defence. Your daughter didn’t try to walk away, she willingly got involved in the conflict and her response was disproportionate (responding to a push with a punch). Self-defence requires you to feel in fear of injury and attempt to avoid it before you retaliate. Your daughter didn’t do that.