Permanent exclusion from high school

[Deeg1]

Hi looking for some extra advice my child been in a fight outside of school over the weekend and not in uniform. The latter part of the fight has been videoed which only shows my child getter the better of the other child. The other pupil approached my child first and made horrible threats and then a fight erupted . There is no evidence to show who started it. However the other pupil has done a statement and showed video and my child has been excluded permanently in less than an hour and without my child having their say or a statement. Other witness statements were taken after the decision is made. Some statements have been interfered with and input by a couple of teachers. There was no investigation prior to the decision and still no statement from my child. After sending notification to headmaster to retract as I felt it was procedurally unfair I was told of if I wanted they would retract but only if I was agreeable to a managed permanent transfer to another school. It has been put on record assaulting another pupil with no evidence of how it started. My child is achieving academically well at school and has glowing reports at parents evening. She gets detentions and things but nothing really serious. It’s set at the moment to go before governors to decide but I just feel the school have been so underhanded with the way it has conducted it. Also the other pupil in question is always in isolation and not exactly a role model pupil. Any body else been through anything similar thanks in advance

You need to get the Governors involved ASAP.

I'm a teacher, although not SLT thank God. I'm pretty sure a permanent exclusion needs to go through the governors and local authority. It costs about £14k, so won't be a decision to be taken lightly. Has school broken to, or is there a chance to speak to the governors before the hols?

If there is a video then presumably the fight itself is not in question.

depending on what is in the video (did your child have a knife or was there serious damage to the other person?) then you may find it hard to fight this.

you can get support for this process.

there is a (very brief) guide here

https://www.gov.uk/school-behaviour-exclusions/challenging-exclusion

Go on the school's website and find their policy for perminent exclusion.
They will have to go through their policies or they will be found in breach on them which they will not want.

You will need to appeal though those processes and highlight the proceedures that they haven't followed.

At my daughter’s high school it’s extremely hard to get excluded. If this is all she has ever done, it is very unfair. What were the detentions for? Late homework or verbal abuse etc? It makes a difference. Many don’t treat detentions so lightly either.

Although this is upsetting and I don't want to upset you more, you will need to ignore the other person involved in this and what they have done in the past as this is about your child and any chance of appeal will need to come from why your child shouldn't be excluded.

The school would look for a managed move before permanent exclusion. This also sounds to have happened really quickly and from what you say protocol has not been followed. I would suggest there must be more to this - either the nature of the fight or your daughters ongoing behaviour.

in terms of the procedure, The Pupil Discipline Committee of the Governing Body must meet within 15 school days from the date of the letter informing you thst your daughter has been permanently excluded. The governors will review all the information about the incident, and it is really important that you submit a statement and attend the meeting. You will have the right to put your case why you believe the permanent exclusion was not the correct decision, and your daughter will also have the opportunity to speak, and to answer questions from the governors. You also have the right to be represented at the meeting or to have someone to accompany you for moral support. Once the headteacher and you have given your sides of the incident and all questions have been asked/answered, everyone must withdraw from the meeting, except for the governors and their clerk, while they reach their decision. It is not permitted for headteacher to be in the room on their own with the governors once they have started their deliberations. The governors have the power to direct reinstatement of your daughter if they believe it was not the right decision: they can either do this with immediate effect or by a particular date to give the school time to prepare for her to return to school.

If the governors uphold the headteacher’s decision, then you will be informed of the independent appeal process.

If you appeal there will be an exclusion committee with 3 or 4 Governors. They will review the evidence and hear the appeal. There will be a LA representative and you will be invited to attend.
It’s rare for Governors to overturn the Head’s decision. This might depend on whether correct procedures were followed.

The school may still ask your child for a statement. If not, your opportunity to put your side is at the hearing, which you will be notified about. It’s important your child attends too as governors will want to hear their side of events before making their decision. They will be looking to see if the exclusion is fair, reasonable (based on civil proof) and procedurally correct, and the impact having your child in school has on others (including staff), and the impact on your child of not being in school.

You will also receive the documentation relating to the PEX at least 5 days before the hearing so will have time to see the school’s case (it may be based on a series of incidents and the fight was the final straw) and prepare your defence. Your child’s behaviour record will give you a good indication of your chance of success.
If the governors uphold it and you go to appeal, bear in mind the IRP cannot force the school to take your child back.
The exclusion is about your child and I’ve seen parents who think butter wouldn’t melt in their child’s mouth be gobsmacked when they hear the school’s evidence.

No weapon 2 girls infact . It only shows the end of fight and not the full altercation and not one mark was over in about 15 to 20 seconds

They get DT at this school for being a couple of mins late to listen to. No she has glowing reports from her teachers in lesson. Jumping Que at lunch break etc . They give DT for anything at this school

Got to wait until sept governors review

No I can honestly tell you it is just on this and he said it is and that the short video clip and the other girls statement is enough and as I said he is now offering to do a management transfer permanently and revoke the permanent exclusion if I agree to it

Late to lesson and skipping a queue are grounds for detention at any school. Don't do it, simple.

This is really the best resource going school exclusions hub It sounds like you’ve made your representations and they say a managed move will mean they withdraw the permanent exclusion. Is the sanction proportional to the the incident, is there any SEN? It doesn’t seem like there were any incidents leading up to this. Has there been any bullying you are not yet aware of?

No he has said his reasons are assault on another pupil but you can’t see who hit out first because the video doesn’t show that but it goes on probabilities and I feel because my daughter got the better of the girl he presumes she started it. I know some statements have backed her story up but some teachers have manipulated some pupils when making statements even saying you must of seen who hit out first and when they say no it was just a fight they say you must of seen trying to put words into their mouths and one even said copy one of them others. It’s just been so mishandled and the headmaster I feel knows he made a hasty decision and trying to back track trying to offer me this alternative and he will retract the permanent exclusion which I think is unfair as this is for his benefit not my child’s

Yes I know this but you said it was very difficult to get one at the school you Mr child is at so said it must be serious. I am just pointing out it’s not serious but like anything I discipline my daughter and support the school when she gets them

If they are agreeing to withdraw it I would bite their hand off. Governors will uphold it. You can then take it to IRP but they can only direct that the decision is retaken, not that the pupil is reinstated. Better off cutting your losses, really.

No sen and no bullying . They don’t even speak or bother with each other at school. It’s been a one off altercation that’s gone from verbal to a fight. I’m glad that some people are thinking there must be more to it or that he wouldn’t just do that without taking careful consideration it just builds my confidence that he has procedurally failure and not followed a full investigation before making a decision within 50 mins of this being reported

But why will the governors uphold it if he hasn’t followed the statutory guideline . If it shows it was proceduraly unfair surely they have to take a view of that or do you think they just won’t overrule a headmasters decision even if they are wrong and made errors. This headmasters has had a lot of official complaints about the way he is running the school and that he thinks he can just do what he wants. Lots of people are taking their children out because of him. I would happily it’s just that my daughter is doing well academically and that is because the teachers that teach are good teachers and she is in an important year and all the work she has done for the last 3 years are in that school

Sadly I work in inclusion and I have never seen governors not uphold a heads decision even when the LA vehemently disagree with it, and disability discrimination proceedings are also underway via tribunal. They are absolutely supposed to hold the head to account; they will also be looking at the whole safety of the school and this is what they will lean on when making decisions. I would wager that their view will be that the head had no other choice, no matter what evidence is brought.

I wouldn’t rest on procedural fairness with this - if you are going to challenge it then other posters have already pointed you in the right direction re resources. From experience, I truly think the most pragmatic thing to do would be to accept the withdrawal of the PEX and make a fresh start in sept.

How do you know statements have been interfered with? Why would teachers have or want input into statements?
if the governors uphold the decision you can request an independent review. But I think the head must be pretty certain if they’ve gone straight to permanent exclusion. The behaviour record of your dd and the other girl won’t count if the school has a zero tolerance rule on assault which is presumably what the video shows. And unfortunately assault is assault regardless of the context.

The Head is offering your child a way out of this - don’t disregard the value of a permanent managed move. With a PEX on their record, you will find it nigh on impossible to find a place elsewhere.

Just to summarise, yiur child regularly gets detentions and has been filmed in a fight. There will be more to this than meets the eye.

They need a managed move and you need to support the new school in relation to expected behaviours.