Permanent exclusion from high school

[Deeg1]

Hi looking for some extra advice my child been in a fight outside of school over the weekend and not in uniform. The latter part of the fight has been videoed which only shows my child getter the better of the other child. The other pupil approached my child first and made horrible threats and then a fight erupted . There is no evidence to show who started it. However the other pupil has done a statement and showed video and my child has been excluded permanently in less than an hour and without my child having their say or a statement. Other witness statements were taken after the decision is made. Some statements have been interfered with and input by a couple of teachers. There was no investigation prior to the decision and still no statement from my child. After sending notification to headmaster to retract as I felt it was procedurally unfair I was told of if I wanted they would retract but only if I was agreeable to a managed permanent transfer to another school. It has been put on record assaulting another pupil with no evidence of how it started. My child is achieving academically well at school and has glowing reports at parents evening. She gets detentions and things but nothing really serious. It’s set at the moment to go before governors to decide but I just feel the school have been so underhanded with the way it has conducted it. Also the other pupil in question is always in isolation and not exactly a role model pupil. Any body else been through anything similar thanks in advance

They get them morning break lunchtime and after school . I don’t know any other schools like it . My daughter got one because her board marker had run out but then got plus points for working so hard in lesson . It’s bizarre

In some schools, yes. Google the Michaela school or Outwood Grange, just for starters. Or listen to this:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002ybc5

There have been threads on this subject on Mumsnet before. The ultra-disciplined schools (always academies) are absolutely a thing.

If you daughter was such a model pupil and the other child such a menace why would the teachers be actively trying to get your child expelled.

the way you are minimising the detentions tell me that the school arr desperate to get rid of your daughter and I’m sure a lot of parents are celebrating.

’getting better’ of another girl, scrapping-etc.start parenting and paying attention to the small stuff.

Not in any of mine!!

I have never said she is an absolute role model but she is very well liked by teachers hence only praise her at parents evening and has a lot of friends and what a horrible thing to say parents celebrating. Infact the very opposite parents are disgusted saying it’s outrageous and that I should challenge it . My point on the other girl is her statement has been taken as oath and she isn’t a role model either and has lots of isolation days . I am talking facts here. May be he doesn’t like me because I’m opinionated and he certainly doesn’t like parents ever being critical that’s for sure as other parents have found out . I am absolutely not condoning fighting far from it! Although I have always told my daughter to defend herself as the world we now live in it is very much needed

One time DS got a detention alongside 15 of his classmates for being late for class after PE - they weren't given enough time to change. (The rest of the class had not come from PE before anyone thinks they were messing around)

He also got a detention for not having his blazer on as he was walking out the school gate.

I was never happier than when he left that school.

All that said, it took knocking someone unconscious and quite a few other misdemeanours before one of his peers was given a managed move to another school - exclusion was for weapons or drugs on the premises.

@Deeg1 has the school got a vendetta out on your DD? She is immediately excluded for fighting, a fight that she didn’t start, but did engage in. You say she “got the better”, what does that actually mean. By “getting the better” is what was seen in the video quite violent? You say the teachers have “manipulated” witnesses into writing fraudulent statements. What’s that all about?
I don’t understand why the other girl wasn’t held to some account. Has she lied and said your DD started the fight? Why has no one stood up for your DD, were her friends present?

The more I read the more I’m sure I’ve read almost exact story on here before, The bit about the head being secretly recorded rings bells.
Did you post about this incident when it happened?
Your current OP reads as if it’s just happened this weekend so is a little confusing.
And I would agree that they’ve been hoping for an excuse to move her for a while and she as played into their hands.

Yes her friends have written statements and do have girls from other schools but they was taken after the decision was made. Thats why I am looking for people’s constructive comments that can assist like governors and ppl that deal with exclusions to enlighten me. Honestly if you have nothing constructive to add please don’t comment with your negative nasty remarks please

I agree about due process and that it may not have been followed here. Make your case clearly and factually to the governors.

From what I read, regardless of the particular incident, you are underplaying the unacceptable behaviour of your DD on some occasions.

The OP is able to record the HT as long as she has done it for her records.
This isn't a court of law

Thank you for your advice. I am not underplaying her behaviour . She is just a typical teenager and certainly not an absolutely outstanding pupil but anything she has had detentions for or been told off have been minor incidents and I do discipline her at home and support the school with it. I think ppl have to realise heateachers can get it wrong and make mistakes,

Can you share the exact wording please, as I think this is crucial to see which of the DfE's exclusion guidelines she has breached.

But you’re hearing gossip…….

Not mine. I never had detention and neither did my partner. My 2 DC never did and his 2 DC (different school) have either

Presumably they have put this in writing to you? Other advice on this board seems sensible, one thing that struck me ‘She gets detentions and things but nothing really serious’. My children have all fared differently at school, but detentions were always treated as very serious. Because behaviour that warrants it, is often behaviour that diverts the teacher away from educating the class.

OP you are underplaying and it’s obvious.

You are her mother and are biased to do so and it comes across in your posts.

The weight of your daughter and other girl are irrelevant.

This it happened out of school and on the weekend is irrelevant.

What other kids are getting detentions for has nothing to do with your daughter.

Getting positive points has nothing to do with equally doing things that incur negative points.

You are missing the point from schools where kids are instructed when pushed to walk away. Not to escalate and not to carry on toward them for 15 seconds.

You said yourself that your daughter got the better of the other girl so it doesn’t matter who started it. Your daughter acted disproportionately.

You have also concluded that people have been pressured with no evidence to support other than it suits your narrative.

You believe your daughter without questioning what lead to everyone else involved having a completely different conclusion.

Your attitude to minimise what your daughter did and negate the situation suggests we absolutely do not have the full story here.

The simplest conclusion is often right and it sounds like the school had enough, took it seriously and excluded your daughter.

Did you see the fight? Or are you relying in your daughters account of the situation? I think you are minimising the situation, it is still unusual for girls to get into physical fights.

So to sum up

your child is being permexed for assaulting another pupil.

Your daughter gets detentions regularly but never for anything serious.

The other girls started the fight by pushing your daughter who then there punched her and was filmed doing so.

The head is being unfair despite basing this on

Video evidence
Statements from pupils at your daughter's school.
Statements from pupils from another school.

These statements are false and based on teachers ( at both schools?) conspiring against your daughter's and coaching them on what to say?

You view this as a minor scuffle for 15 to 20 s with not a mark left.

This does not seem likely and your daughter / you are leaving some details out ....

I suggest you read it properly before commenting . . No he took statements after making the decision so did not rely on them at all and actually the ones from other schools that

They get detentions for taking blazer off in school or having there overcoat on when they walk through the school. She gets it if she’s forgot her long socks for PE or has one piece of equipment missing ie board marker or even when it’s run out. So I am saying they are not serious like disrupting a class or being cheeky to teachers or swearing and he agrees that her behaviour is good but that he has done the right thing based on how it affects the school community and environment after a physical fight as they both attend the same school

in the letter it just says regret to inform you your daughter has been permanently excluded due to a physical assault on another student . I haven’t taken this lightly and I’m sure this upsetting for your daughter and your family and then just goes on to tell you the process. Which he did take lightly because he didn’t take witness statement until after he made the decision. He admits he based it on the other girls statement and the end bit of the fight on a video that another child was taking . He admits he won’t beable to rely on the statements as he had already made his decision but it appears that a headteacher can make this such severe decision. I do believe he has made errors doesn’t want to back track now and that’s why he he is offering to retract if I agree to moving her school on a managed move but didn’t offer this in the first place.

I assume the other child was not from the school? If so, have they been treated equally? In my experience it is common to turn PEX into managed moves. It might not be reflective of him thinking he didn’t investigate properly, but I certainly think your child not adding their POV means that they have acted hastily.

for those saying OP is not being honest about her dds behavior due to her detentions. Well I cannot comment on this case directly, but my dc goes to schools where you get a detention for not having a green pen, the wrong colour hair tie etc. Just look at the media reports into Mossbourne at the moment. I know yp with ADHD, difficulties with executive functioning etc constantly getting behaviour sanctions way beyond what is reasonable. This can and does happen.

Well sounds unfair, but without knowing what happened to the other child, and what went on their record it's not really clear.
Generally as not much is made of who started it as you might imagine, and it goes on both records- if this is not the case they must have other evidence.
To be fair that he was in a fight going on his record is fair enough, he was- but that he assaulted another pupil means they have evidence.
Ask the school what the evidence is, and i would also appeal the decision to permanently exclude him- but bear in mind you probably won't win because it seems clear they have witness statements or CCTV showing your DD as the aggressor.
The way you describe the process goes against all priciples of English Law, so if you are right about how it was handled you should definitely appeal and make a representation to the Govenors- but be sure you know how the decision was made, on what evidence , and in what sequence, because what you describe seems unlikely.

I am also a school governor, albeit at a primary school, but I am on the pupil exclusion committee. If this was at our school, then it doesn't sound like the head wouldn't have followed process, as a PEX needs to go through the governors and LA first, which I think you have written he didn't? In a similar situation, the head would suspend the pupil whilst the investigation and PEX is processed. As other posters have said, a PEX costs a huge amount of money so it isn't something to be taken lightly.
School policies and processes do vary from school to school and LAs, so i would highly recommend you go on to the school website and find their policy on PEX. You can then use that during the governors meeting to demonstrate if/where the head hasn't followed policy.

However, I would like to ask, what does "getting the better" of the other girl mean? I have seen permanent exclusions for a child that had "no priors", because they have attacked a child in particularly dangerous ways.
So there is the risk, that even after governor review, the decision could still be upheld if they feel it is necessary based on the severity of the attack/what the severity could have been.

Apologies that it was long, but hopefully that helps.