Permanent exclusion from high school

[Deeg1]

Hi looking for some extra advice my child been in a fight outside of school over the weekend and not in uniform. The latter part of the fight has been videoed which only shows my child getter the better of the other child. The other pupil approached my child first and made horrible threats and then a fight erupted . There is no evidence to show who started it. However the other pupil has done a statement and showed video and my child has been excluded permanently in less than an hour and without my child having their say or a statement. Other witness statements were taken after the decision is made. Some statements have been interfered with and input by a couple of teachers. There was no investigation prior to the decision and still no statement from my child. After sending notification to headmaster to retract as I felt it was procedurally unfair I was told of if I wanted they would retract but only if I was agreeable to a managed permanent transfer to another school. It has been put on record assaulting another pupil with no evidence of how it started. My child is achieving academically well at school and has glowing reports at parents evening. She gets detentions and things but nothing really serious. It’s set at the moment to go before governors to decide but I just feel the school have been so underhanded with the way it has conducted it. Also the other pupil in question is always in isolation and not exactly a role model pupil. Any body else been through anything similar thanks in advance

It happened on a Friday evening and was reported Monday morning and as I say within around 45 to 50 mins she was excluded from school. Yes they have broke up now I’m talking about over a week ago . I’ve done a lot of research myself but was hoping to hear from governors and people that deal with exclusions

exactly know and that’s why I’m fighting it

It was very unwise of you to have recorded the Headteacher covertly, and most governors would take a very dim view of this if it came to light in the Pupil Discipline Committee meeting. In many schools, the headteacher will offer a managed move as an alternative to permanent exclusion to avoid the student having this on their record and having to attend a pupil referral unit, and this is something that I would consider carefully unless you are very very sure that there isn’t more to this than you’ve disclosed.

I think that regardless of your daughter being pushed first the video does still show her hitting the other girl. Definitely tell the board of governors about how the statements were gathered but I don’t think that’ll overturn the decision as there’s video evidence which will be worth more than the statements. If the video had shown the full incident then it’s likely the other girl would have been excluded too or suspended depending on how much she hit your daughter as well as your daughter being excluded. But that’s just what would happen at the school I work at so still ask for an independent review as it might be different at your daughter’s school.

Sounds to me that the school have been looking for a reason to get rid of her and she has played into their hands.

Even if she is "just" a low level disruptor,. don't underestimate how much damage she will be doing to both her own and other pupil's education.

Try and turn it into a positive, new school, new start.

@Deeg1 the panel will check whether it was reasonable. They will check whether it was reasonable to PEX as a one off serious breach of the school behaviour policy and also whether return of DD would seriously harm the education or welfare of other pupils or other people in the school. Has to pass both tests

I was responding to the lady that said she was a governor and it was black mail him now offering to remove the px if o didn’t go the the governors but this has only been offered when I sent him a letter explaining that I wanted him to retract it based on all the pints and procedural failure as well as not taking my daughters statements and all others after so the school hopefully will have taped the conversation but I am also protecting myself because I feel he will deny it to the governors as he is saying he will only do it if I agree to accept manage movement and not continue to give it’s meeting that’s the point I am making because I don’t trust the headmaster

Also why hasn’t he put this option in writing to me but he hasn’t and won’t so basically he wants me to do a deal

I don't get it. It happened at the weekend. It was a scrap with no marks left But within 50 minutes of being shown the video a very normal pupil who has a good behaviour and academic record, is permanently excluded from school?

I bet there are boys from that school in scraps outside school regularly. Why had this one triggered such an extreme response?

On school property and in school time I cab just about understand. But this seems disproportionate.

If it is disproportionate governors should overturn

Exactly and I know of many fights outside school but obviously this girl and her parents have informed the school and many people wouldn’t as they think it’s nothing to do with school. My daughter even contacted about 30 mins after to say she wanted to sort it as she doesn’t like falling out with anybody and even got evidence she messaged her on Sunday evening so there would be no animosity in school and on the Sunday she didn’t reply. This was fine genuinely and not because met daughter thought she would be in trouble as I say outside of school I wouldn’t of thought the school would get involved

I do support parents with exclusions. I would have argued that defaulting to permanent exclusion was probably not proportional to what happened. A temporary exclusion, yes, but PEX, no. If your child hasn’t had the opportunity to give a statement, it probably hasn’t been properly investigated. Given your daughter doesn’t have a history of fighting, the PEX isn’t to keep staff and other students safe, esp since it happened outside school. You could possibly call the school exclusions hub I linked earlier for advice.

I usually see PEX converted to moves to other schools. Not managed moves. I would have suggested that a temp suspension or managed move (Temporary move) would have been more likely.

just to clarify, was the HT perhaps suggesting a redirection off site for behaviour? Sometimes they can, and do, do this. I think a PEX is extreme. I wonder what other PEX look like for the school and for the borough you live in.

You will have received a letter from the school giving the specific reasons for the PEX. What are they? I suspect the fight was the tipping point and won’t be the main “charge”.

Well it is clearly states due to assaulting another pupil on the letter is only reason and that’s it

I was about to say the same thing. I work
in a school and permanent exclusions are not done so lightly . Costs the school money (£10k I think this was a few years ago- to discourage schs from doing it - last resort) and governors need to be consulted.

No he only just offered when I challenged him that he would retract if I agreed to a permanent management move but not a temporary one , one that I would agree to and she wouldn’t be given an option to return to that school which I think is extreme and not a unit because she hasn’t got any behavioural issues . This is why I think it was a Monday morning he’s been hasty got in with it and now realises he has made errors and offering me this as my only option. I just don’t understand but he has made it clear that he has only based on video and girls statement and I said surely a more appropriate sanction would be more beneficial than to this extreme . He admits that she’s doing well at school but he feels he has made the right decision. Honestly I just can’t get my head around it

Schools don't exclude lightly so they really wanted to get rid of her , do dome summer tutoring and move on to next school

I’m not sure about that is it still happening that they have to pay or if it becomes something that they can do as a headmaster it doesn’t count. I have never heard of his but I will be asking the exclusions officer on Monday morning at the council about it

Side observation, op said that it’s normal for kids to get detentions (multiple) when at school. I can honestly say that neither I nor my husband or my 2 children have ever had a detention at any point. Is this really what is happening in schools?

Thank you I will look at that

A council tried to ‘fine’ schools for each PEX but don’t think that was ever allowed to go through

But schools will lose the funding they receive for that pupil

Actually I’ve just looked and it says it does on the basis of pro rata so I guess he won’t because it’s summer and they go into a new year so prob happened at the best time for him before she goes into new year. Maybe if she was only a quarter away through a term he might of had a different way of thinking

Honestly at my daughters school you see at least a 100 kids coming out of school each day after detention maybe more

Some schools (often known as zero tolerance schools) do hand out a lot of detentions for what in other schools would be relatively trivial matters. (Blazer not on, shirt not tucked in etc).