DD Miserable at Oxford Uni

[MyPearlPoster]

So DD is in her first year studying history at Oxford. She has come from a very prestigious secondary in London, where she thrived and had lots of amazing close friends, some of whom are at Oxford now too. From the start she has found it all really challenging socially, calling or messaging in tears that she hasn't found her people and feels alone in her college which seems to be rather unsociable, unfriendly and 'nerdy'. Spending time with friends from home there helps, but she says everyone seems to have a core friend group within their college, where they've all found likeminded people to eat/hang out/study with - I think she feels somewhat like the odd one out for being lonely in hers. It doesn't help that her friends at other unis, many in the US, are having the time of their lives, calling with exciting stories and posting pictures of new friends - she really feels as though she is majorly falling behind. I have told her multiple times that it takes time and that she would regret leaving Oxford but it also kills me to see her so unhappy. Academically she is doing pretty well, but not thriving perhaps as she used to, and finding it difficult to concentrate and focus because of constant anxiety etc. She is speaking to a therapist and taking a low dosage of anxiety meds which have been recommended. I think part of it is the lack of structure of it all - she was used to having a big but very tight group of supportive friends who she felt very at home with, and as a family we are all very close too. With her humanities course she hardly has any contact hours and all people in her college seem to do is study...she keeps saying it's not that Oxford is wrong for her but her college specifically but there seems no chance of moving...I know people will say to get involved with extracurriculars and she does journalism which she enjoys but finds everyone there is more of a loose acquaintance network. Apart from this, she was never particularly sporty or into music and other than those activities everyone's social lives do seem to revolve around their colleges...she makes an effort with friends of friends etc but feels afloat generally and is often lonely.

I think this idea that the first year at Uni is the best time of your life is just not true for many people. Lots of people are very good at pretending they’re having an amazing time.
I was lucky in that I did make some good friends in my first year (small Oxford college) but I would say that a lot of people were pretty miserable a lot of the time tbh for all sorts of reasons - relationship break-ups (really tricky in a small college where you keep bumping into exes all the time), not coping with the academic workload etc etc
Oxford is a big city and there’s lots to do there both in and outside of the university. Plenty of people in my college didn’t engage with college life at all and built lives for themselves in the wider university and city. I also knew a lot of people who just didn’t settle and had parents/friends visit every weekend.
Tell your daughter to keep trying to meet new people but not to be too fooled by others seeming to be having an amazing time

I think there will be people have amazing times at university but in life there will always be times when your life is going better than others and other times when it worse and its learning to navigate your way through. Up until now its sounds like your DD has had a fairly perfect life and maybe her friend group were roughly equal for that. Now they are having different experiences and she's having FOMO by obsessing over their social media of a group of wealthy children and maybe missing school days.

Maybe mixing with a wider demographic or being involved in a charity or cause may help see there are other issues in the world. Hopefully she will be happier next year. Its common for them to be immature at times but it is a safe environment to mature in unless they have very severe mental health issues in which case leaving is probably the best option. It does not sound like that though.

I don't think it sounds like your DD in question is interested in rowing and that's fine - my DD just laughs and gets on with it if she falls in the river, quite different personality. All the rowers we know love it but it is like a cult they have joined. The sports social life at Oxford/Cambridge is a lot more than drinking and many university sports will not involve drinking at all - DD is a minimal drinker and no issues. Rowing provides a lot of her social life - Soon its the summer eights, associated garden parties and formal boat club dinners, then they are going to balls together, some of these can join without rowing. They also have BBQs and go away together to regattas around the country like Henley and to week long camps together in UK and abroad. They row in the day then cook communal meals and socialise. I think these days there's a lot less drinking, this generation is much more sensible. But even in my day as long as you avoided the matcho public school boy sports you could easily bypass the drinking games.

She may also find that some of the nerdy students have had very strict upbringings and may not know how to socialise but some once introduced will love it but it would need her to suggest an activity / organise a party first. After exams are over there will be a lot more fun activities. Its really not long until end of year now and will be a fresh start in October.

relationship break-ups (really tricky in a small college where you keep bumping into exes all the time)

Yes, if one piece of advice should be included in every Freshers' Week pack/talk it should be 'Never shag your tutorial partner, and, if you must, wait till at least sixth week.' 😀

In terms of having done a gap year to be more mature on arriving at uni, I don't entirely agree - I did a gap year and struggled at (Bristol) uni. The ability to socialise doesn't have much to do with maturity, imo - it's a knack some have, like sex appeal. Looking back, you'd have some hangers-on, just in the clique as a kind of mascot, they had nothing to say, no personality but were just accepted, though they'd feel threatened by any outsider. Still, they had the knack of having friends and I didn't. It's possible that having led in one's subject, you can feel like you're a leader when actually you're a mascot...

If anything, doing a gap year can make you more worldly and less tolerant or if you prefer appreciative of anyone with a limited outlook on life.

For practical advice, I'd suggest your daughter keep a look out for places she might want to switch to at the end of year one, simply as a kind of back up or form of surveillance, something arguably she should have done before going to Oxford but quite understandably didn't. I mean, to look around other places can be interesting, at the least - and some will/may be able to take her omitting year one, go straight into year 2 so no loss. I got offered one of these decades ago doing history at a uni or college in Twickenham but bottled it for all kinds of various reasons, and while things got better for me at Bristol it never really felt like the place I should have been at.

A recall a thread from a year back where someone disliked being at Exeter and then switched to Norwich which turned out to be friendlier. Of course, it's not right up there in terms of academia. It would be good in any case to get good grades at the end of her year so no one can say, oh she wasn't up to it.

So at the very least, she could phone around to see what her options are, and of course also throw herself into some of the suggestions for Oxford on this thread to see if it comes off.

Couldn’t agree more. I had this. I was very sociable and confident but found the first term at Cambridge very hard - even considered leaving although ironically my grades weren’t strong enough to go elsewhere ( in the days of the unconditional offer). I did have friends in my college but the weren’t what I’d expected. Drama was my solution to this. I wished I had the close college thing too, most of my best friends were at Caius but I got through it. This was in the 89s though and I think we were far less likely to tell parents and friends how we were feeling.

You just need to get stuck in.

OP, some of the issue might be your daughter trying to 'optimise'.

Life's usually better when we stop trying to work out why it isn't perfect - and instead think about what we can bring to the table, as well as what we can get out of it.

Though I admit I find this hard to do myself 😄

Poor kid!

I didn't particularly get on with the girls in my halls in first year, but I made lifelong friends through the hiking and cycling clubs and also enjoyed myself in the music ensembles.

She will surely find friends via clubs and societies.

To be fair, this is like a million things you can try out and not like, find it's not currently measuring up.

The difference is when a) Others seem to be having a much better time, so it's FOMO and b) It's not like a dodgy or disappointing party, where you can just go home and regroup and let it form a backdrop. Instead it feels like you have to 'stick it out' to the bitter end, it's like a continuous thread with no break.

I doubt all her friends at US universities are having as much fun as she thinks, just as I doubt she is telling those friends she’s having a shit time at Oxford.

I also think the potential problem with something like journalism, or drama, or the Oxford Union as a means of making friends at Oxford is that a fair proportion of the people doing those activities will be doing them seriously for CV-building purposes, already having a proven talent and ambition in that area, so may not be quite so interested in the friendship-building aspects of the activities as opposed to the contact-building and skill-honing opportunities. Activities that are more obviously hobby-based, or are novel enough that most people will be trying them for the first time just for the fun of it, might attract more people interested in establishing friendships over a shared activity or experience.

There is loads of good advice on this thread, hopefully your daughter finds her interest and finds people that share that.

i will add a word of caution - if she is already on anxiety meds and seeing a therapist I would try to make sure she keeps being honest about how she’s feeling, and if she is really struggling she knows you will support her in helping her - maybe different uni, year out etc…

I struggled massively at uni (not Oxford but Russell group) from the start. I tried to pretend everything was we fine and just tried to keep on going despite the sadness. I graduated but tbh it nearly killed me. I regret not being honest with my family and I wish I had tried a different path

I really sympathize. I went to Cambridge, and I never found my group of 'forever friends'. I felt really very lonely a lot of the time, despite trying other clubs etc. I did eventually make a close friend from another year group, and through her then met my husband, so it wasn't all bad. I got my degree, and moved on. For me I found it especially galling, because I had had to move schools several times, so hadn't found a gang, and had thought it would happen at university. Not everyone does have the time of their life at university. I have unexpectedly found a nice group of friends later in life by having my first child. For now, it gives me the gang I'd expected to have when I was younger. It may not last forever, but that doesn't matter. I suppose what I'm saying, is that things don't always work out how we imagine, but actually, as life goes on, you realise that not everything will work out, and, equally, things may work out well in unexpected ways. If she's found school easy in a social respect, it may feel very hard to be coming up against things not being so easy now. But in life, things aren't always perfect, and learning to accept that she's where she is and make the best of it, rather than pining for what seems like a better experience elsewhere, could actually give her some real resilience to take forward into life. Everybody comes up against hard stuff at some point - it's not always possible to just change things. Sometimes, learning to live with and make the most of what we have can be better for us, even if it seems like everyone else has it so mich easier. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they'll have a harder time at a different stage of life.

Agreed on the journalism front, although if she enjoys it there us no reason to give up of course.

It is hard: these threads always bring back memories of my own time at a US liberal arts college I was ill-suited to but stuck out. It's not the end of the world - agreed these situations do teach resilience. But one very big thing I learned is that life decisions based on logic - ie this is the best school in the rankings- are not always best. I learned to trust my instinct more but I am not even sure I would call this instinct these days so much as 'agency.' People's success and happiness doesnt rely solely on the scaffolding of external factors like the school they went to or their company's brand (from someone who has at various times felt hostage to both!)

I don’t think I did any of my chosen activities to “make friends” including music, journalism and drama but when you’re working alongside people you make friends anyway.

Just to say, I really don't think there is any evidence that this is particularly an Oxford thing, and certainly not specific to any one Oxford College. For many students, the College system makes finding friends easier. Any student in any University can find fitting in and making friends hard, depending on exactly who they happen to find in their immediate circles when they get there.

In his memoirs, Bob Mortimer describes how he went to one of the top universities - actually, looking it up on wiki it turns out it was Sussex and then Leicester, reading Caitlin Moran's interview I came away it was somewhere like Oxford - but anyway his take on it was that he came down to the student hall dinner, quickly realised he wasn't going to be able to mix with the people there, then disappeared into his room for the next 3 years.

Caitlin M's stance on it was, what a waste that our uni couldn't do anything with this brilliant fellow from a deprived background. Thing is, you could argue it was the worst thing to do on his part, to simply decide he wasn't going to bother participating in social life. According to any rational thought, anyway. On the other hand, if you really don't think it's going to work, you could argue his was the better move because he saved himself the social ignominy of trying and failing - he simply drew up his comfort zone and kept within it. He went on to study law and got a job in London and so on - see his wiki page.

I think the thing is though- this is your dd's problem to solve. I would support completely in terms of paying for therapy, letting her know that if she wants to swap unis or take a year out and reapply, all those things are fine with you, and that you love and support her. Provide a set of listening ears.

I think the temptation is as a parent to want to 'fix' things, but she will work it out herself, and increasingly I'm realising my tendency to rush in and provide solutions just frustrates my uni age children as they just want a sympathetic ear and to know I think they are ace. I've found 'Let Them' the book very helpful in learning to let them get on with it, but help from the sidelines.

My concern is partly that she seems so up and down recently - one day she will be on the phone clearly holding back tears and wishing she’d gone anywhere else but feeling totally stuck - and then the next she sounds as though she’s doing okay? My instinct is to encourage her to stick it out - who leaves Oxford?? - but at the same time if she’s really unhappy I don’t want her becoming a shell of herself just for the prestige of a university

I’m not advising one way or the other. However, one thing might not otherwise occur to you…
I’m in my 60s and have a friend who dropped out of Oxbridge in her first year.
The son of a friend is in his 40s and dropped out of Oxbridge at some stage.
These things are not forgotten by others and will forever form part of other people’s narratives around them, in my experience.
Your experience might be different, or it might not matter to you, but I do think the possibility is something to bear in mind.
I’m sorry if that sounds very negative.

By way of contrast, I have had an amazing student this last year who dropped out of Oxford at 19, but returned to study with us (a RG uni) in her mid-twenties, and it has been a great experience for her. She says she simply wasn't able to cope at that time in her life with the Oxford experience, and has absolutely flown at our current institution, coming out with a first and a lot of friends, and just being at a different place in her life- in no way is her life going to be blighted by leaving Oxford (no need to call it 'dropping out', it's simply leaving and restarting elsewhere).

I think sometimes the fit isn't right and sometimes the circumstances aren't right, and it's ok to know that and act accordingly.

I hear what you are saying about her being up and down, which is why I would be led by her. Talk through the options this summer, let her know you love her and support her to make all decisions, including leaving if that's what she prefers, and just listen. It sounds like her anxiety and depression isn't under control, and it may be at a different time and a different place it will be. She may need to regroup, she may need to mature a little, she may work it out and stay.

There is no 'wrong' decision in life IMO. Even going to Oxford is not a guarantee of success these days, and many institutions are looking much wider for their pool of graduates, the bright, creative and often sensitive ones do great wherever they go. Life is for living, not enduring.

Yeah, and in the US the following people dropped out of Harvard: Bill Gates, Mark Zukerman. Sam Altman dropped out of Stanford. And these are the people I can think of in 30 seconds.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg left Harvard for the ignominy of Columbia.

OPs daughter would likely find a perfectly socially acceptable uni to attend, with no employer the wiser.

We have passed over Oxbridge graduates at the hiring stage (plenty) and also made them redundant over the years.

Success is about someone's character and their courage. Their judgement, and their self-belief.

Willingness to act even when there is risk and it's not a decision 'other people would make' or might judge you for.

Sitting in your room for three years in terror of making a decision for yourself/acting according to your convictions is hardly the recipe for success - no 'brand' can do that sort of heavy lifting for you.

I'm sorry for the rant but I have rarely seen worse advice and I would never, ever give it to my children (or another young person.)

Some people don’t find uni as rewarding socially as school. I didn’t. I went to a good RG uni and have a couple of friends from there still in my forties but only one I see regularly (the other moved overseas). My school friends are still my best friends now. I think the idea that uni is the time of your life is propagated by people who has a bad time at school. In her later years she will be very very pleased she was lucky enough to have had a happy and rewarding teens. Bad school years is damaging for life but good school years gives your a lifelong self esteem. Will she be working or travelling the summer? The short terms helps if she’s not loving college. What can she do outside uni that really enriches her social life?

Well I know someone who left Cambridge and had a fresh start at Edinburgh and was MUCH happier. It does happen.

I agree with much of this but please don't say "Bad school years is damaging for life" - it's not helpful and it's not true.

I 100% agree with this, having the courage to say 'this isn't the right time for me, this isn't the right place for me', retreat, regroup and then go forward is a sign of emotional and intellectual maturity, not the other way around.

Don't ever make teens or young adults feel like there are no options or their life will be over if they leave that uni/don't get the grades/need to retreat a bit then move forward. It won't ruin their life, that's not even true!