School said it might be best if DS is put back in nappies

[BlitzMelody]

Adopted DS is 4.5, we adopted him when he was 2, we started trying to potty train him just after he turned 3 before he started nursery. It went wrong, he'd scream, bite, scratch and have full on meltdowns after every accident. Tried again and he was still the same and he refused to sit on the toilet/potty at all. Nursery weren't that supportive and it was clear he was the only one in nappies.

We did have a potty in his room and the front room and we would ask him now and again if he needed to use it or if he wanted to try. That also made him distressed, the nappy was sort of like a safety net. We also got a book and read it to him, told him that he was a big boy and babies need his nappies, did he want to give them to the nappy fairy and get a toy (didn't work, he also wears nappies at night so it was confusing for him).

We tried last June and he had 10 days solid of tears, and accidents and he said he didn't want to use the potty or toilet he wanted a nappy “forever”. We phoned Eric because we were at a loss and they just advised to make sitting on the toilet fun and he'd get there.

We tried for the 4th time in August and this time took all nappies away except for nighttime and that's still where we are at now. He has accidents daily, he's quite content to just sit in it and denies he’s even wet or dirty. We try to promise of a toy and sticker charts but that doesn't work. He does wee on the toilet sometimes if we can tell he needs to go, but never a poo.

School initially would prompt him to go and try on the toilet like they did other children but he is strong willed and would refuse, he has accidents daily. I'm usually called at lunch time to change him as he's wet and then at pick up he usually needs changed again. Day outs are the same. Sometimes it feels deliberate.

Yesterday i thought a poo was coming and put him on the toilet with a bribe of a toy, he stayed there for a while because he wanted a toy. he decided nothing was coming so got off and 2 minutes later it was in his pants. This has happened on other occasions but I thought it was a coincidence

I feel like school think I'm a crap dad, DH works away during the week so it's usually just me going in. This week he is off and went today and he got distressed when DH was leaving so in the end he brought him home. The TA or whoever brought him to DH has said that maybe it's best if hes put back in nappies

He's strong willed in other ways too but this is relentless. Can the school suggest this? I thought by now he'd have got it especially being nearly 5 months into reception

Our daughter wouldn’t use the potty and for whatever reason it was a no go. We tried a camping toilet and for us, this was the magic item that changed our toilet training journey. She looked more comfortable position wise sitting and could put her feet on the floor (unlike the toilet and scrunched up with the potty). No idea of any use, but couldn’t not share. Good luck - you are trying your very best x

It could be that he knows we will go to him when he's in school and we do care for him, we always hug him after an accident etc.

We have sent him in a nappy today and we've got a SENCO meeting for next week

I really hope the senco meeting is actually helpful... I think you've got some good advice in here from a skim. Firstly I don't think you're making him choose to have accidents by hugging him - if that were the case you could fix the issue with hugs for using the loo, but he won't do that - the issue was there already. It's not you. The only thing I wanted to add is that my child was almost 5 when he started school. He was still in night pull ups, and he had only really figured the daytime loo stuff out just before age 4. He is technically diagnosed autistic but you probably wouldn't have known at that age on meeting him (I sought diagnosis for other reasons when he was older but they gave him the standard autism one and no help with the actual issues we were having). I was also late to toileting. Late enough that I remember accidents, despite being a girl and girls tending to get it sooner. Boys tend to take to it later, and there could well be some additional stuff happening. I'd say really take the pressure off yourselves and be informed by the pace HE needs (I would say this about any child tbh) but also, if school want him in nappies, they need to devise a care plan so you know when they intend to help him with getting cleaned up. And finally, seriously, completely sod the people making idiotic comments. It's so unhelpful. I particularly liked the comment from a pp about male parents in fact being actively sought as safe people for some adoptive kids... One to casually drop into a chat with the gobbiest parent at pickup so they can pass it about freely. Do you feel like you have anyone onside at school? You need an ally on the inside, I think.

I haven’t read all the comments. I just wanted to say you sound like really brilliant parents who care deeply for your son! Good luck!

Huge potty training issues here too. By far the hardest part of being a mum so far! Took my DS about 9 months to be consistently dry (we started at just gone 3). First year of preschool was a nightmare but he's flying it now. Since then we've discovered he has some sensory issues so I think that was leading to confusion. We found getting him to do a daily poo really helped as he didn't withheld if he was constipated which led to accidents. He still gets a treat for a poo. There's a wonderful Instagram page called poo on the loo by an Irish nurse specialist and she posts great tips and offers 1:1 support online appointments. Remember this too shall pass!

I had the same sort of problem with my eldest son, not adopted but autistic, although at that point, four years old not diagnosed but with obvious problems, like lack of speech. He just wasn't interested and was at nursery school. All the children were meant to be clean by then so I couldn't send him in nappies but he would almost always be soiled by the time I picked him up. It was so frustrating, nothing worked. I would get quite upset about it all with him although I tried not to .He also seemed to not like toilets - or a potty much. One night I thought I can't deal with all this angst any more, I sat him on the toilet in the bathroom and said take as long as you like, don't worry, I'm just going downstairs to do some things. I didn't go back after 10 minutes in frustration, I got on with some dusting and I actually forgot all about it, had the radio on. Probably after about 20 minutes or maybe a bit longer I went back and he had performed - and was really pleased with himself. After that it all naturally progressed quickly. I can only put it down to the fact that I mentally switched off because up until then it had been absolutely hopeless.

My 18 y o, now at university, was wet and dirty throughout reception.
It was miserable and it felt like we were being judged.
He just needed more time and maturity. Nothing we tried made any difference.
I don't know if going back to nappies is a good idea or not, but try and take the stress out and give him time.

Try not to be too hard on yourselves!

I think at this point I would try and have an open conversation about how now he's getting older he really needs to be a clever boy and start using the toilet otherwise he can start to affect his school etc. Ask him how many of his friends wear nappies, if he's smart like like you say then he should understand this. I would do it gently and explain that you need to understand whether he's not well or just doesn't like the toilet.

For rewards, I would do a chart where 10 points gets a new toy or treat. 1 point for a wee and 2 for a poo - sitting there doesn't count.

Let him choose his own underwear too as that may help

My third was dry during day at 3....but not at night until 8 years old! Just was not ready. You are not alone when it comes to toileting issues, think it's more common than we realise. Sounds like you're doing all you can.

Honestly with his adoption background and still being in reception I don’t think this is unusual.

my DSS is autistic and was like this (not saying your son is autistic, just referencing to show the context). What worked for us in the end was getting him to sit and poo on the toilet in a nappy, then cutting a hole in the nappy, then turning it into a belt, then eventually he just went without it one night and realised he didn’t need it. We watched lots of poo goes to poo land too.

Put spares in his school bag and if he wees he can change himself. Packet of wet wipes so he doesn't smell of pee. Soiling is more of a problem but the days where Classroom assistants were allowed to change children are long gone. So you will have to go into school if he needs cleansing. It would probably only be once a day. He might just get fed up of having to change himself. Good Luck.

Your family needs trauma informed therapy.
Your son has developmental trauma and what you see as stubborn, he sees as survival.

If you did an mri of your son’s brain, and a child with no trauma you would see significant differences.

Intervention is imperative and both you and your dh will need to learn how to parent an adopted child versus a biological child.

Not exactly the same but I have 2 grandchildren through SGO.

the youngest I’ve had from birth. She’s 5 now.

we have really similar issues. She rarely poos on the toilet and will soil herself and stay in it!

we had to study Early childhood traumas due to fostering them first and apparently even in utero in can lead to attachment issues.

we’ve also had professionals suggest autism as there appears to be a link.

let me know if you find a magic fix, but in the meantime. I hear you!

Wow I've never heard of this but it all fits with my adopted son (when he was younger)! Potty training (and everything else) was terrible but in my case it all gradually came good in the end. He's now nearly 14.

I think leave him in pull ups OP & try in the summer again , for whatever reason he just isn’t ready ..
You’re not a crap dad .
You sound like a great dad , any child would be lucky to have you .
Don’t worry , it will all work out .
You’ll hit the teenage years , look back & think , God I remember when potty training was my biggest worry 🙈 😂

They aren't long gone at all.

Intimate care plans exist at schools for this very reason.

You are not a crap dad, it seems like you’ve tried to time and manage things in the best way possible.

I don’t think you should have started earlier, it wouldn’t have helped. I also don’t see why a female caregiver would be any better.

Potty training was one of the most difficult aspects despite none of the challenges you’re dealing with like adoption and oppositional behaviour.

Great you are getting some specialist input, I think get all the help you can. Sorry the school are making you feel bad, it’s probably just difficult for them to manage. Have you explained the context? Sometimes that helps.

Communication is probably key - he needs to feel he’s the one in control and it’s his idea and he’s motivated to get out of nappies, rather than having to comply.

Do not stress!!
Adopted children have trauma. Pick your battles - if school are happy to change nappies, let him do it his own time.

I'm a single adopter of 2 - and it’s not easy!! But sometimes the battles aren’t worth the aggro…
good luck

You need some specialist help. Meanwhile take the pressure off of both of you, put him in pull ups, dont talk about about it bribe him or in anyway make it a big deal. When you see a specialist they will help you plan a way forward

I think all children are sooo different with potty training and such an important transitional milestone. My eldest DD was quite late and happily told me whenever her nappy needed changing 😂 I found it easiest to let her make the choice as to when she was ready to use the toilet. I did this by taking her with me to buy a step for the toilet & the child seat that sits on top and choosing her own ‘big girl underwear’. She decided when she was ready & when she wanted to stop wearing pull ups at night. Her younger sister seen all this and ditched her nappies overnight! Psychologically it’s about control - and a child’s first stages of emotional autonomy. I’m sorry but I don’t think labelling him ‘strong willed’ will help 🙁

Training pants might be a good compromise. They look and feel more like pants, but they're waterproof so he won't need a change of trousers. And they feel wet, which is supposed to help him understand that he's urinated and give him an incentive to use the toilet.
Would make life easier for the school but feel less like a step backwards.
www.thenappylady.co.uk/reusable-potty-training-pants.html

I'm wondering if something toilet related happened with one of the previous foster families and your son is too little to both understand what really happened and also vocalise it? It would explain being scared of the toilet or potty. It has therefore skipped under the radar? I'm just wondering if he associates the toilet or a bowl with something negative? I'm also going to say toilet training boys can be hard work - one of mine trained in 4 days and the other was 18 months of stop and start and my nephew in P7 is still in pull up pants at night.

May I make a suggestion please? Easier said than done but don't stress. Secondly, try and enforce boundaries - I know that is difficult because the wee fella has been through so much in his wee life but this just might be were you need to do reward and correction and it will be hell! What are the consequences of not going to the toilet properly? That he might need to get pulled out of school? That he can't do school swimming lessons? Find the carrot and dangle it! Thirdly, ask for a referral to your health visitor - they will have hints and tips and be able to get you in front of specialists if needed. I'm also wondering if he can't feel the need to go to the loo hence the multiple accidents and looking pleased with himself when he went at the theatre. There's also the possibility that he just wants reassured that you haven't left him and knows accidents bring you to him - you are his 4th family Inc birth mother in 3 years. I can understand why he thinks you all might leave him.

Fourthly, ignore bigoted people - this wee lad has two dads that love him and that is super important. You can't reason with stupid.

Lastly best of luck - you will get to the end of this in due course

Hi OP, another adopter here. My dd was ridiculously easy to potty train, but behind with loads of other things - dummy until she was 6, co-sleeping till she was 10.... I am a hardened veteran of judgment from school and other parents!

I think it's vital that you accept that what is normal for other families will not be normal be yours. Childbearing practices that work for other kids may not work for yours. You will constantly be asked to justify why this is, given your child was removed soon after birth. You will have to guard against feelings of shame, inadequacy and not being a 'real' parent. Shame is particularly devastating for adopted children so bear that in mind when deciding on the best course of action here.

Very best of luck.

Hi OP, you sound a great dad 🙂

Long time since I potty trained. As others have said, your DS will get there in the end. Lots of kids develop at different stages. But your DS has obvs had a lot of trauma in his first few years, if he was taken away from parents, siblings and then left foster parents and has only been with you a couple of years. It’s probably put him back a bit. He may find the nappy comforting in some way - maybe a reminder of his baby days before the trauma. Lots of kids feel exposed without a nappy on.

You need advice from a professional really on how best to approach it. Could be SEND issues.

Personally, I put mine in cloth, potty training pants as soon as they started potty training (aged 2). Modern nappies are so absorbent, they get used to peeing in them and it doesn’t bother them. The training pants had some waterproof in them to spare their clothes. Purely as a mum (not an expert), I’d also not make a big deal about it. Sometimes, the more you make a big deal of things, offer bribes/rewards etc, the more they get stressed/resist. Calm, firm, matter-of-fact and brief is best. If it doesn’t bother him if he’s wet, it doesn’t really matter. Just give him spare clothes and tell him if he wets to change himself. He’s old enough to do that.

I know you’re worried he’ll be teased or bullied. But if he says other kids have mentioned his wetting and it’s upset him, the school will have to deal with this, as they should any unkind comments or bullying. Dark trousers that don’t show wet patches may help.

Also, modelling how to behave. Interesting he came with you at the panto. If he hears you both say things (not to him but yourself) like: ‘I need a wee, I must go to the toilet”, then sees you go, he might start to copy. And maybe a bit of reverse psychology when he’s sat on the toilet trying: ‘I bet you’re not going to go are you?’. They love to prove you wrong!

Good luck! 🍀

Our neice was toilet/potty avoidant, when she was 6, my sister tried all
sorts and my neice was just stiff as a board ever time she went on the potty.

Eventually they paid to see a private play therapist, which helped immensely, lots of play therapy initially as we couldn’t work out the reason why she avoided of being on the potty.

What worked for my neice in the end was putting her feet in a basin of warm water, which helped relax her sphincter muscles and release urine during potty time, to help keep her focus from being on the potty we filled the basin with shaving foam and she had to stamp out the clouds, this allowed her body to relax and the movements allowed her to have a poo.

Eventually, they moved to screen time games when on the toilet so her focus was on the games and not her potty training.

All our family got involved, we praised and took her on special days out, bought her gifts, FaceTimed her to say we where all proud of her etc…

i think it took 8 months in total.