Are top private schools getting fewer oxbridge offers?

[Ijustwanttoask]

Just read in the papers about the drop in Oxbridge offers to Eton in the last few years. Is there a same trend for other big name public schools and top London day schools too?

In the past years, these schools generally happily announce the numbers of Oxbridge offers they get around this time of the year but I haven't seen much for 2021.

* Title edited by MNHQ by request* **

Hope so!!

You should follow some of the threads in the Higher education section. The answer is yes because the numbers of dc applying each year are increasing helped by the uni outreach programmes to reach dc all over the U.K.

Yes, long overdue. I hope it's a trend that accelerates.

I would imagine there is a real push to recruit state school applicants. Colleges full of ex public school applicants looks dreadful. Cambridge are being very proactive at dds state school - talks sessions etc. They need to show they are diverse. It isn’t 1860 anymore.

Although slightly galling if you’ve paid ££££ to increase your odds!

I wonder what the long term effect will be on the top tier private sector - will there be less demand?

Top private school elite increasingly looking to US universities and other top universities worldwide. So the money leaves that way. Their intakes are more international and so is the choice of university.

I think it will just switch the focus onto other prestigious universities.
I've noticed for a while now that the independents near us have been quoting the offers for unis like Durham, St Andrew's, LSE, Imperial etc alongside Oxbridge.

Social engineering going awry!

I'm all for getting a more diverse set in to Uni's in general but not at the expense of lowering standards - not suggesting that this IS the case but COULD be the case across ALL universities.

There are all sorts of mechanisms out there trying to artificially engineer the diversity which I personally believe is not having the desired effect of getting the BEST and socially diverse kids into Uni.

Take for example a mechanism called A to B......where a leading medical school would allow students from certain postcodes & backgrounds entry to the medical course which requires A's but would let you in with B's......I wonder whether those that implemented this sub-standard mechanism would allow those students that benefited from this system to treat them should they every find themselves on the surgery table?? - Doubt it but they are happy for the rest of us to suffer this fate!

My point is we should all welcome diversity in to Uni's but not for diversities sake.....is there a way to blind the process?
For example, look at grades and profiles without volunteering names, backgrounds & schools?

Whatever the right way is to do this, I hope the Uni's find it soon as coming from a ethnic background myself, I would feel cheated if I got my place due to my ethnicity - I would like to think I secured it simply because I was the BEST candidate

I feel glad that my grandparents moved to the UK where at least diversity has been recognised and mechanisms have been designed and being implemented to increase diversity - but PLEASE - best candidates only for the best Uni's

I guess in some way it is not that different from children having massive amount of tutoring for 11+ competing against those who didn't get the same amount of training.
The very impressive statistics for top schools like Eton do raise questions of how much of the excellent performance of their students are the direct results of targeted help, and whether this performance is sustained once at university.

I will have a look at the higher education board too, thanks @Cloudymornings96. Does anyone know if this downward trend of Oxbridge offers is also seen at the top independent day schools too? DS is in year 6 and we will need to choose a school for him soon, so this is one of the elements we would want to take into account.

Take for example a mechanism called A to B......where a leading medical school would allow students from certain postcodes & backgrounds entry to the medical course which requires A's but would let you in with B's......I wonder whether those that implemented this sub-standard mechanism would allow those students that benefited from this system to treat them should they every find themselves on the surgery table?? - Doubt it but they are happy for the rest of us to suffer this fate!

I would be very happy as I would assume a child that managed to get Bs despite attending a poor school would be a much higher quality candidate than one that got As from a top school with all the advantages that goes with attending a top school. Plus the I would have concerns the person from the top school might not have the ability to relate to and understand the average person.

@WoodpileHouse

Totally agree

@Keepyourkidsafe

Social engineering going awry!

I'm all for getting a more diverse set in to Uni's in general but not at the expense of lowering standards - not suggesting that this IS the case but COULD be the case across ALL universities.

There are all sorts of mechanisms out there trying to artificially engineer the diversity which I personally believe is not having the desired effect of getting the BEST and socially diverse kids into Uni.

Take for example a mechanism called A to B......where a leading medical school would allow students from certain postcodes & backgrounds entry to the medical course which requires A's but would let you in with B's......I wonder whether those that implemented this sub-standard mechanism would allow those students that benefited from this system to treat them should they every find themselves on the surgery table?? - Doubt it but they are happy for the rest of us to suffer this fate!

My point is we should all welcome diversity in to Uni's but not for diversities sake.....is there a way to blind the process?
For example, look at grades and profiles without volunteering names, backgrounds & schools?

Whatever the right way is to do this, I hope the Uni's find it soon as coming from a ethnic background myself, I would feel cheated if I got my place due to my ethnicity - I would like to think I secured it simply because I was the BEST candidate

I feel glad that my grandparents moved to the UK where at least diversity has been recognised and mechanisms have been designed and being implemented to increase diversity - but PLEASE - best candidates only for the best Uni's

I'm fairly confident that anyone going through 6 years of med school and gaining the grades to make it through to specialise as a surgeon will have proven themselves a wee bit beyond what is shown by A-Levels, don't you?

You wouldn't be wrong @WoodpileHouse. Students coming from less 'good' state schools often outperform their privately educated peers at top universities.

I do think there's an issue for the 'squeezed middle' of highish performing students who don't excel. Individual universities have strict limits on the number of UK students they can admit, and have regulated targets around the number they must admit from state schools, deprived neighbourhoods or other groups that are underrepresented at their particular institution. If they are taking the very best, regardless of where they come from, plus enough students who have excelled in challenging circumstances to meet the university's targets, and they only have a finite number of places, something has to give.

Most universities think the criteria used for these contextual admissions are a pile of bollocks, to be fair, and that the government are using their regulatory power as a sticking plaster for the absolutely shocking inequality and social immobility that these undergrads have experienced for the first 18 years of their lives...but it definitely makes a big difference to the life chances of a number of students. To be honest the biggest hurdle is getting students to apply in the first place, it may well be that the kind of outreach work mentioned by pp is driving more applications from qualified students in schools that would never have previously considered Oxbridge, and that these guys are pushing out more mediocre private school kids because they are better applicants, not because of any special considerations.

Surely that “concern” could be flipped on its head that a candidate from a top school could be hothoused and over supported so their grades aren’t a true reflection of ability...

DC went to a private school that used to get around 30-35 pupils into Oxbridge every year. It dropped suddenly 3 years ago to about 20, then 15 last year. Don't know what it was this year. That coincides with conscious drive from Oxbridge to widen their nets and take on more state school applicants and quite right too!

Yes, you are all correct
Students that come from state schools are all the same
They have very poor teaching standards and God only knows how they get through....let's just reward them for the hard circumstances they find themselves in
Christ, do you all really do believe that?

I'm a son of an immigrant and went to a really rough school on a council estate up north and didn't get any of this social engineering/tinkering

You are missing the point here and looking through only 1 lens

It needs to be fair for the full social spectrum irrespective if independent school kids have been spoon fed (and less prepared for real life/Uni) or had the school of hard knocks and rock at Uni.

What I am saying is the system needs to be blind to the social spectrum

But I guess you all that have commented so far don't care for fairness....you're main concern is to tip the balance the other way

Who wants a fair world anyway hey!

I would favour a self-motivated B grade state school student over an A grade privately tutored & educated student.
Diversity increases quality.

Eton students are privileged. They will inevitably get high grades, but are they the top students in the country? No, of course not. There are numerous students with lower grades who have so much more to offer and so much more potential.

Social engineering going awry!

Really? Immigrant or not (I am also an immigrant) you must recognise the disproportionate levels into Oxbridge.

It is statistically impossible for that to be based on meritocracy. FFS.

withmycoffee

You should live a little and broaden your experience....
I work in the medical field, I am aware of some students that have had to apply some underhand methods to get in to medical school.
They got through medical school but I would not let my nanny anywhere them!

Live a little and learn from experience is how I live rather than being ideologically aligned to a limited view point - I judge by experiences and experiences of others too

Fair, eh? Most research suggests that a kid's life chances are pretty much set by the time they are five. If you think that's 'fair' you're using a different dictionary to me. Any tinkering by the time they reach university is just a sticking plaster attempt to make up for the deep, deep unfairness that is rooted inextricably into our society. But don't worry, it doesn't really work. I suggest you read or listen to Sam Friedman on this subject. It's eye opening.

@Labobo Are the parents at your DC's school concerned about the drop in number of offers? Rightly or wrongly, it is often used as one of the parameters to measure the academic performance of a school.

Oh, and I'm talking about inequality at a societal level, not individual pulling yourself up by your bootstraps situations, which will of course always exist but don't disprove underlying problems.

Yes they are going down and should continue to do so. Very very slowly it is being realise that the mechanisms of deciding the best students isn't necessarily by knowledge gained through an exclusive education and upbringing but by intelligence and application. There is still a huge way to go before the gap is properly bridged though.

I concede defeat
Condemn those that have gone to independent schools as they do not deserve entry to any top schools as we assume they all get straight A's and none of the boys are from less privileged backgrounds on bursaries.

Also, none of the parents from independent schools have made any sacrifices, rather they have spent all their money on luxuries in life (holidays, flash cars, designer clothes) at the expense of their kids education

All that sounded rather untrue but I guess we all see folks from independent schools in the same single light!

Let's tip the balance the other way and damn those fools that waste all that time and money on the independent sector

Let's also assume that ALL students that get B's (or less) from poorer/diverse backgrounds would of course got higher grades if they had a more privileged background - we can bank the house on that.
Come on folks this is not true - perhaps a significant proportion might get higher grades but not ALL???

Let's inject some logical reason here....sorry, logic has nothing to do with this, it's all ideological trash where we don't care for fairness, just to tip the balance in the complete opposite direction