Are top private schools getting fewer oxbridge offers?

[Ijustwanttoask]

Just read in the papers about the drop in Oxbridge offers to Eton in the last few years. Is there a same trend for other big name public schools and top London day schools too?

In the past years, these schools generally happily announce the numbers of Oxbridge offers they get around this time of the year but I haven't seen much for 2021.

* Title edited by MNHQ by request* **

@OnlyTeaForMe the proposal doesn't mean everyone will have equal outcomes. Most people still wouldn't go to top universities and there would still be lots of competition and aspiration.

What would change is the stranglehold those borne with advantage have on accessing those opportunities. It would level the playing field rather than eliminate competition. Meritocracy rather than plutocracy.

[quote dipdips]@OnlyTeaForMe That was a brilliant bit of expectation management from the head of Sixth form. We can no longer promise to get your average children in to the very top uni's - because it is increasingly more about intelligence than schooling - but we can still get them into the band B ones where they will find plenty of students just like them (which we know really matters to fee paying parents/children) and get on to decent courses.[/quote]
I think few intelligent parents would consider Durham or St. Andrew's a 'band B' university!

What makes a 'top' university? This question gets hashed around every UCAS cycle. It often includes assessments of:

• prior academic achievement of incoming students
• spend per student
• quality and intensity of research
• employment of graduates after 3-5 years

For many of those areas other top universities already far outstrip Oxbridge. For areas like graduate prospects, education and family connections still play a major part and that will be the case for students, whichever university they attend.

It would level the playing field rather than eliminate competition. Meritocracy rather than plutocracy.

Exactly. Currently meritocracy doesn't exist.

Your family background is still the biggest predictor in relation to which university you'll attend ( land if you attend at all!) , the job you will do when you graduate and the salary you will earn.

Social mobility in the uk has stalled ( and some say is reversing) and this is a problem.

@OnlyTeaForMe

Agree - "For many of those areas....other top universities already far outstrip Oxbridge."

Do not agree - "I think few intelligent parents would consider Durham or St. Andrew's a 'band B' university!"

When it comes to Oxbridge many otherwise intelligent people become a bit goofy. Oxbridge is still considered (by them) to be tier 1 in every way, other RG uni's tier 2 (or Yale etc which they perceive will mean people will think their child has achieved equally to getting in to Oxford when they really haven't it is very much about those who can pay $$$$$$$$$$$ to access international HE.)

[quote dipdips]@OnlyTeaForMe

Agree - "For many of those areas....other top universities already far outstrip Oxbridge."

Do not agree - "I think few intelligent parents would consider Durham or St. Andrew's a 'band B' university!"

When it comes to Oxbridge many otherwise intelligent people become a bit goofy. Oxbridge is still considered (by them) to be tier 1 in every way, other RG uni's tier 2 (or Yale etc which they perceive will mean people will think their child has achieved equally to getting in to Oxford when they really haven't it is very much about those who can pay $$$$$$$$$$$ to access international HE.)[/quote]
Oh dear,oh dear,maybe before posting on a subject make sure you know the basics-Yale is needs blind for International students as are several of the other best US unis,absolutely nothing to with ability to pay and if you dont think the top US unis, are equal to Oxford they you display even more ignorance.

That's not true about Yale or the other top Ivy league universities.

All students, including international students, access extremely generous financial aid-- if your household income is less than $150k you pay virtually nothing. Even above $150k household income you still qualify for financial aid depending on your total financial assets which excludes the value of your pension and equity in your home typically.

The size of the endowments at Ivy League universities are enormous and easily generate enough excess annual income to fund the cost of their undergraduate course provision with no fee income. Yale's endowment is $31b and Harvard's £41b. It dwarfs anything seen in this country. Money from international students really doesn't impact finances at these universities to have any impact on admissions...

@nolanscrack I x-posted with you. That is 100% right. Top universities in the US are beyond rich. The funds they have on an a totally different universe to Oxbridge so they don't make admission decisions based on fees.

Not needs blind at all, you NEED to be able to afford to pay out of state rates to the private US uni’s which makes it more expensive than UK university , which my niece has just done at UGA. It cost a lot more than had she gone to a UK university but she had fabulous time and she is only child so well within their budget.

I totally agree about Yale being as prestigious (more prestigious?) than Oxbridge I was stating that some blinkered parents think Oxbridge is the ultimate top goal.

Re costs -
www.internationalstudent.com/study-abroad/guide/uk-usa-education-system/

@dipdips

Not needs blind at all, you NEED to be able to afford to pay out of state rates to the private US uni’s which makes it more expensive than UK university , which my niece has just done at UGA. It cost a lot more than had she gone to a UK university but she had fabulous time and she is only child so well within their budget.

@Dipdips

That's simply not true for the Ivy League universities. In fact out of state rates only apply to public universities and Ivies are private so there is only ever one rate both for in-state, out of state and international students.

You are right this comes into play at some universities in the US but you really are very mistaken stating this is the case for the likes of Yale, Harvard, Princeton etc. UGA isn't in the same category.

admissions.yale.edu/financial-aid-international-applicants

You can see for yourself that Yales admission for international is needs blind. Its the very first sentence in the international admissions page...

Dip,stop digging,you dont have a clue what you are talking about..

Needs blind but you NEED to be able to afford to pay. Which means many bright kids from UK won't be able to even consider it.

@nolanscrack I know exactly what I am talking about. It costs more of a UK child to study at a US university than it would for them to study at a UK university. My niece has just done it. What don't I understand?

Ah ok, point taken about no price differentiation between in state and out of state Yale and co - didn't realise that, happy to learn from my mistake there.
So how much does it cost for a UK child to study at Yale compared to Oxford @nolanscrack @OnlyTeaForMe

@dipdips Depends on entirely on family income. It could be free for a british citizen if your family income is £100k.

Give me strength,its needs blind,read the link south londonmommy has kindly provided for you..its nothing to do with in state or not,

@SouthLondonMommy do you know if they look at assets as well, like if you are a homeowner etc?

@SouthLondonMommy
When you say 'could' be, what does it depend on? ie is there a quota of free places for UK students and once that quote is used you pay full whack or does it mean that you might not get 100% free you might get eg 80%?
Do you think that this means that children from state schools are accessing these free study places? Or does it depend on the school they attend having information/contacts etc to encourage them in that direction?
Didn't realise it was so different for those top uni's, thanks for the education. x

@nolanscrack I got there in the end, thanks for hand holding. Really interested in this. Do you think that many state school students are accessing these free places at top US universities?

Oxbridge set their own entrance exams in most subjects, so only the better performing candidates get through to interview. If a candidate is not academic enough, even if they went to a top school, they won't get in.
It's a bit like saying a top athlete is advantaged by having gone to a paying club when they were younger, or a musician who had private music lessons. Unfairness is part of life. Better preparation for Oxbridge because parents pay for it is just another unfairness on the list.

FYI - I am very working class, went to a very rough comp in the 80's. DS went through private schools on scholarships/bursaries. He got into Oxbridge on his second attempt. He has worked very very hard to achieve this. But yes, his school's Oxbridge results went from 18 to 3 a couple of years back.

His friend got into Oxbridge 1st time from state school.

Each school is slightly different but your pension and equity in your primary residence are typically not included. Also, the first $200k or so of savings isn't included in assessing ability to pay.

Essentially then don't expect you to go into financial ruin by draining your pension, selling your house, or running down your life savings to zero. Assets beyond that though do start to be taken into consideration.

Honestly, with the amount of money they have they could just make it free for everyone. Fee income is a rounding error in the total income they generate per annum which is billions from their endowments.

Our school has had a near personal best offers to Oxford & Cambridge this year, but it's very academic and usually has a lot of students getting their first choice

[quote dipdips]@SouthLondonMommy
When you say 'could' be, what does it depend on? ie is there a quota of free places for UK students and once that quote is used you pay full whack or does it mean that you might not get 100% free you might get eg 80%?
Do you think that this means that children from state schools are accessing these free study places? Or does it depend on the school they attend having information/contacts etc to encourage them in that direction?
Didn't realise it was so different for those top uni's, thanks for the education. x[/quote]
No, there is no quota but your financial assets are also part of the assessment. If you have millions in liquid savings but don't work you aren't getting a free place iyswim.