Sick and tired of this... [sad]

[DemiLee33]

Hello everyone and thanks for listening.

I am at breaking point with my son's secondary school teachers/policies.

For I.E for ridiculous, unwarranted punishments.
Detentions for not having a pen or a shirt untucked.
Most good students in secondary schools are in I.e at least once within their first 2 years of starting. Most students have had at least 10 detentions by the time they have completed year 8.

Once again I have been in meetings, lodged complaints, cried on the phone to them. My son has cried and is so low in mood now because he feels beaten down by them. I have had 2 teachers admit to me that a lot of 'normal' 'good' kids are in i.e or on report.

Their policies are awful! Nationwide, secondary schools are so extreme with their punishments for such ridiculous, unwarranted reasons. Some schools have even started saturday morning detentions!!
I am so tired of not having my voice heard. Anyone else feeling like this? I have started up a fb group to vent about this and it may take off it may not. I have emailed relevant organisations and lodged complaints but these schools are a law unto themselves.

Sorry for moaning
xx

I teach in a secondary school and also have a ds in another secondary school, if he forgets his pen or it 'breaks' in another lesson then he takes the consequence. He carries a spare in his bag. If he goes around with his shirt out, again he takes the consequences.
Most staff know who never has equipment and who's pen is genuinely out of ink. We see them every day.
To you it's just one child but if every child did that every lesson, school would be bankrupt supplying pens. I teach 180 students a day!
My ds has never had a detention or exclusion because he follows the rules. He looks smart and I ready to learn.

I have emailed relevant organisations and lodged complaints

I think the European Court of Human Rights probably has a few other more pressing matters to deal with.

been in meetings, lodged complaints, cried on the phone
Over one detention?

You are kicking up a massive fuss over something that should have been a lesson learned for your son. Most people learn by their mistakes especially when there are consequences for their actions. School rules are for everyone - not everyone except your son
Exactly!

I had to give a break detention to a student who forgot their homework. Policy is a one off you can give them 24 hours and if still forgotten there's a detention. They forgot. They had 15 minutes detention at lunch. They're still a good student. I still like them. I still respect them. They still respect me. They're a good kid who said 'fair enough' and no relationships have been damaged. It's just one of those things. They didn't forget again because they're a good kid who does what they should.

The worst thing I could have done is say 'oh don't worry you don't have a detention'. It would undermine colleagues, show myself to be an inconsistent teacher and a teacher who allows my personal opinion of students to compromise professional judgements. That would have caused many of the class to lose some respect for me.

If this has only happened once OP, why are you crying on the phone to school. Don't you think that's a massive overreaction?

A NT child is capable of avoiding detention 99% of the time

What about those that aren’t NT

Ds Dyslexic, with ADHD and a slight hearing problem managed to get 10 detentions in first week of secondary school after never having a single mark against him and glowing reports in last year of primary.

Pulled him out and HE him

Great life lesson for your son, PP .

you lot are rude and extremely dismissive

Did i ever say i was on the phone crying because of a detention over the pen situation.. no i didn't

i ended up crying at no point because there didn't seem to be an end to the cascade of other punishments he was receiving back to back for a while causing stress for us. And the reasons ridiculous as far as i was concerned.

if you don't agree that is fine.
All carry on being sarcastic and rude if that's all you know.. sad really..
My son has only ever attanded this secondary school. He is in yr 8. He is bright, clever and funny and a good student. I have had heads of years saying so. He isn't rude to adults, aggressive or violent.

He has had detentions for some things which I have agreed with. But I firmly believe a re think is needed on the zero tolerance policies because it groups together slight discrepancies compared with much bigger behaviours in children which should be punished

You can be bright, clever and funny and still be disorganised and defiant. It's not one or the other. In fact, lots of our bright, funny kids bend the rules!

You need to look at it from the perspective of running a whole school. Your child is one of probably a thousand, give or take.

Fgs give him several pens in a pencil case

Sorry I misunderstood, but you did say I have been in meetings, lodged complaints, cried on the phone to them.
Can you be a bit more precise about how many detentions your DS has had and whether they were only for pen and shirt offences, or other things as well.

I totally agree with you OP. The policies are draconian. I forget my pen all the time at work. No big deal, just use a spare pen or borrow one from someone. Every so often I’ll bring in a load of pens to the communal area to redress the balance. Uniform... well where I work you can tell how senior someone is by how casually they are dressed.

Students are no longer taught to think for themselves and then we have to spend years undoing that in the real world to teach them critical thinking. Drives me mad. I dread my DCs going to secondary.

The students ARE being taught to think for themselves, that's the whole point! They need to think that, if they break the rules there are consequences. They then have the choice-do I break the rule and accept the consequence or do I abide by the rules? They may not agree with the rules but that is by-the-by. Whilst the rules are there , they need to be followed.

FritataPatate

Yes it was a good life lesson.

It taught him in life when you have a situation that isn’t working for you.
Walk away. Life is too short to try to change an unchangeable aspect of your life.

2 detentions were by 2 different teachers. He had his back to the teachers on the computers facing the back wall and when they said to stop he didn’t hear them and carried on working.
A simple tap on the shoulder by a fellow pupil to let him know what was going on would have sufficed but instead a detention was given on 2 separate occasions.

But they are young and need our support to make those decisions. As the OP is trying to do to support her son.

What we need is students and parents together to say ‘these rules are shit’ and all make the decision not to follow them. Then take the consequences. If the whole school or majority of students refused and kept refusing then eventually the school would have to back down. While parents actually think it is important that students tuck their shirt in though, it won’t happen.

Oliversmumsarmy that is appalling .

I think your circumstances are completeley different, Oliversmumsarmy. Nowhere has DemiLee mentioned any additional needs that might affect organisational skills or, in your son's case, medical needs that affect his ability to hear instructions. Reasonable adaptations should have been made for your son and the school were simply wrong.
That does not mean the school is wrong in the OPs case, we simply don't know.

It's not about "just the pen" or "just the shirt".

Students like to push boundaries. One of the ways they do this is breaking minor rules. They then get a minor punishment and they hopefully don't do it again. School rules are shirts must be tucked in. If your child isn't following that rule and a teacher has to remind them, that's interrupting the learning of others. The same with the pen. I'm fed up of students who don't have a pen. There are a small minority who struggle to afford a pen and I give them one in form time. However not 10 kids per class which happened last week. They got detentions.

Surely, if your DC gave a shit about you, he would make sure his shirt was always tucked in and he had two pens every day, rather than see you crying over the number of sanctions he incurs?

Swearing at a staff member - a day in isolation and then a day's exclusion.

Swearing in the presence of/the words slipping out - a reminder about appropriate language, a detention or strategic ignoring in the particular circumstances (eg, hurt, upset, etc)

Throwing things - depending on whether it's the damned pen they claim not to have or a chair - detention or isolation/exclusion for violent conduct.

And yes, in sixth form, they are told to tuck their shirts in/conform to the rules regarding dress. There are plenty that would send a student home for not being acceptably dressed. If there is no rules regarding clothing, then no, they wouldn't be - but a large number, especially those within schools have rules that still cannot be broken without consequences.

Staff also get picked up on their clothing. Many have rules about length of skirt, the type of shoes, covering shoulders, wearing jackets, covering any tattoos, removing piercings and wearing shirt/tie/jacket. A male member of staff would undoubtedly be told to tuck their shirt in. And they're adults in all senses of the word.

Most would also refuse entry to a student who has forgotten their lanyard/ID.

OP - sounds like you're stressed out and I would be too if my child had received a 'cascade of punishments'. But I would be focusing on my child's behaviour and organisation skills rather than setting up Fb groups and crying.

MitziK So in 2019 we are really ok with schools policing skirt length of women and girls ?

@DemiLee33 schools have a behaviour policy that they have to adhere to. You will have no doubt signed a home/school agreement to support and uphold this.

The school is doing the best for your son. Low level behaviour needs sorting too as it is extremely disruptive to school life and it will help your son long term when he is out in the real world.

Don't be that parent that thinks that their child is being unfairly treated for not following the rules. So your son a favour and realise that it's for his own good

@DemiLee33
Yes schools do. I agree with it when following girls up the stairs and you can see next weeks washing.

Same with boys who wear low slung trousers and boxers hanging out. That's not appropriate either.

Dare I say it but female staff with huge boobs and low cut tops are my biggest bug bear.... Just put a vest top underneath fgs!

Of course @DisorganisedOrganiser. People should be appropriately dressed in the workplace!