Sick and tired of this... [sad]

[DemiLee33]

Hello everyone and thanks for listening.

I am at breaking point with my son's secondary school teachers/policies.

For I.E for ridiculous, unwarranted punishments.
Detentions for not having a pen or a shirt untucked.
Most good students in secondary schools are in I.e at least once within their first 2 years of starting. Most students have had at least 10 detentions by the time they have completed year 8.

Once again I have been in meetings, lodged complaints, cried on the phone to them. My son has cried and is so low in mood now because he feels beaten down by them. I have had 2 teachers admit to me that a lot of 'normal' 'good' kids are in i.e or on report.

Their policies are awful! Nationwide, secondary schools are so extreme with their punishments for such ridiculous, unwarranted reasons. Some schools have even started saturday morning detentions!!
I am so tired of not having my voice heard. Anyone else feeling like this? I have started up a fb group to vent about this and it may take off it may not. I have emailed relevant organisations and lodged complaints but these schools are a law unto themselves.

Sorry for moaning
xx

I have never said my son keeps forgetting a pen.

He has never been punished before because he has always been equipt.
So he does not keep on forgetting a pen.

It was one unfortunate time this happened. He is human. It happens.

And there are people on here who still say he deserved to be punished. Who are you people???

Tucking in shirts and having a pen is what they need to do at work, it's not unreasonable.

Whether you need a tucked in shirt depends on what sort of work you do - there are plenty of occupations where it becomes irrelevant.

As for pens: where I work, if anyone loses or breaks a pen, they just get another out of the stationery cupboard.

I'm forever going to meetings without a pen. Someone just lends me one. No one in the workplace gives a rat's arse if your shirt is tucked in. The only time you would get disciplined for it, is if you are in the military. Stop pretending this is in the best interests of the kids.

As a teacher, I am not a stationary cupboard. Nor is the student sitting next to you and I'm sure their parents would be annoyed to know they are a branch of WH Smith. Schools do not have spare pens. Or spare anything. And I can't afford to keep giving my own ones out and neither can the kid with a lovely full pencil case that their parents paid for - for them. So a child without a pen is a real pain. Which is why it should be punishable as amazingly those same students have magically remembered their phone. Please bring more than one pen in case it explodes/leaks/runs out/gets eaten by your friend. It should not be a surprise that you will need a pen at school.
Here ends my rant about pens. Waste so much lesson time sorting out kids writing implements it is annoying.

No one in the workplace gives a rat's arse if your shirt is tucked in. The only time you would get disciplined for it, is if you are in the military.

My workplace has a code for personal presentation, dressing appropriately for the job and looking professional. It includes personal hygiene and clothing which is unsuitable for work.

People who don't adhere to it are sent home to change, and any time after that it's a disciplinary. I work in support for vulnerable adults.

Having your shirt untucked isn’t going to get you sent home or in a disciplinary though is it? Someone might say ‘you need to tuck your shirt in’, if that’s necessary.

Having your shirt untucked isn’t going to get you sent home or in a disciplinary though is it?

Not at my workplace no, but clearly at this school it has consequences.

Parents who argue over ridiculous things and expend time and energy wasting everyone else's time and energy because they think the rules don't apply to their kids are fucking arseholes. It's really not a surprise that they raise entitled arseholes.

It's just unfortunate that the rest of us end up having to deal with them in the workplace which makes everyone's lives harder!

Well, that an example of an attitude reserved for children, which you wouldn't get away with in working with adults. It's not insulting to ask a person n xt to you,vto borrow a pen fcs

I have no problem with children who persistently don't bring pens in receiving appropriate sanctions, assuming it is not down to learning difficulties. What I have a major problem with is children automatically being sent to isolation for every minor infraction, including not having a pen: it's ridiculously disproportionate, it doesn't make allowances for SEN, and it leaves you with nowhere to go for really serious disciplinary infractions.

I can totally imagine how disruptive the lack of equipment is across a class, and although some sort of ‘three strikes’ approach seems more proportionate I also see that it imposes yet another task on teachers of keeping track, so not that workable. But I’m afraid the tucked in shirt nonsense just seems to be part of the fetishisation of uniform that is actually obstructive to learning. Many countries, and schools in this country, have no school uniforms at all and cope perfectly well. Sensible expectations of clothing, much like the work policy outlined above, without sending kids home because they’re wearing the wrong shoes. It feels like genuinely unhealthy obsession with some nostalgic never-was era of public schools and Empire. Also so many sexist uniform policies which reinforce stereotypes.

Sanction for no pen is a discipline point for lack of equipment. So not too scary ! And I keep a stock (which I buy) for those kids that I know have things going on in their lives that might make being organised trickier.
And if I see a shit untucked I say tuck it in. Same for skirts rolled up and socks pulled mid thigh. If they don't then they get a sanction.
Not been to a school where isolation is used for anything except serious or persistent misdemeanours. It would fill to the brim otherwise. The reasons students give their parents for isolation may be different to the actual reason. I had one who told his mum I had given him detention for talking. Well yes partly but more because the talking involved telling me to F off.

Well, that an example of an attitude reserved for children, which you wouldn't get away with in working with adults

Wouldn't get away with? If someone repeatedly doesn't bother their arse to come to work prepared, I would tell them to get a grip rather than borrowing shit from people who do bother their arse.

Once, fair enough, twice, aye even that.

But to suggest I "wouldn't get away with" that attitude with adults is laughable. Firstly, if they're too lazy or stupid to bother being prepared they're not exactly adults are they? Secondly, the world is full of twats who expect everyone else to make up for their shortcomings. They're a PITA.

Once again..
My son does not keep on forgetting a pen.
One time should be a nudge from teacher and from then on if it happens again then so be it. Sanction would be something I would agree to.

And I do not ever say or think my son is a little darling who doesn't deserve to be sanctioned. I do not hold the view that because i don't agree with the rules then my ' precious ' child shouldn't be punished.
I do not agree with the rules because my child didn't DESERVE the punishment end of. Certainly not because my wonderful, precious child can't do anything wrong.

There is wrongdoing and rudeness and ignorance and then there are simple mistakes which we all make.

Talking off subject and not engaging in the work when a teacher gives out a sanction is understandable.
My son was working and of subject and helping his partner.
That does not warrant a sanction. Again just a nudge to quieten down.

So pleased there are people on this thread who do live in the real world..

I have no problem with children who persistently don't bring pens in receiving appropriate sanctions, assuming it is not down to learning difficulties

But how do you know if a child has learning difficulties if they are never tested.

intheheatoflisbon we aren't necessarily talking about kids who repeatedly don't bring equipment. My DD always has equipment. ONCE, both her pencil leads were broken and she got a detention

Attitudes on the his thread confirm my experience that teachers expect children to be kiniving little shots ALWAYS forgetting equipment, on purpose. There's no differentiation between the very few who really 'cant be arsed' and the more prevalent occasional forgetters. See also, those who are late for class.

So, I will continue to afford teachers the se lack of differentiation and just assume they are all power tripping bullies with no integrity, until they individually demonstrate to me in an outstanding and memorable way, that they aren't

I don't know any effective professional that would seriously consider forgetting a pen, to be a 'short-coming'. Your role has to be pretty insignificant, for that to even register

Or rather, you would have to be terrible at your job

Talking off subject and not engaging in the work when a teacher gives out a sanction is understandable.
My son was working and of subject and helping his partner.
That does not warrant a sanction. Again just a nudge to quieten down.
It's not a nudge to quieter down situation. A nudge to quieten down situation is teacher has said they can talk quietly but the noise level has gone a bit too loud because they're busy getting into the work.

He was talking after the teacher had told the class to settle and knows the teacher (rightly) doesn't want students talking over them. The 'but I was just asking a question... I was just talking to my partner... I was just talking about the work so it doesn't count. .' is nonsense. They were told to stop talking and listen to the teacher. They ignored that instruction and decided to continue talking. Teaching a class doesn't work if you wait for 32 students to decide they're ready to finish their conversations.

I totally support you in saying isolation for the first time you don't have equipment is ridiculous, but on other things you need to step back and see the big picture because it's not for you or your child to decide when they're willing to be quiet.

My dd year 9 just told me only four out off her class are getting on day out. I told her if she behaved in y10 she might get next year. She is a real chatterbox.
Other dd in y11 school has rang me about forgetting copies. I told them no phone calls just email as Im at work and dont want to listen to a rant about my dd forgetting a copy. I have a lot off serious stuff going on and cant be doing with a phone call about missing copy.

My DD got a detention for not having a pencil Sharpener in school even though in 3 years she's never used one as they write in pen !!! Safe to say she didn't attend the detention

stressedmum77...

How did it end up then because in my school failing to attend a detention causes further sanctions and possible interrogation from staff (a phone call to parent/carer)