Sick and tired of this... [sad]

[DemiLee33]

Hello everyone and thanks for listening.

I am at breaking point with my son's secondary school teachers/policies.

For I.E for ridiculous, unwarranted punishments.
Detentions for not having a pen or a shirt untucked.
Most good students in secondary schools are in I.e at least once within their first 2 years of starting. Most students have had at least 10 detentions by the time they have completed year 8.

Once again I have been in meetings, lodged complaints, cried on the phone to them. My son has cried and is so low in mood now because he feels beaten down by them. I have had 2 teachers admit to me that a lot of 'normal' 'good' kids are in i.e or on report.

Their policies are awful! Nationwide, secondary schools are so extreme with their punishments for such ridiculous, unwarranted reasons. Some schools have even started saturday morning detentions!!
I am so tired of not having my voice heard. Anyone else feeling like this? I have started up a fb group to vent about this and it may take off it may not. I have emailed relevant organisations and lodged complaints but these schools are a law unto themselves.

Sorry for moaning
xx

DD had one detention the whole of secondary school. For forgetting the correct PE socks.

Tough. Just do the time.

No point crying down the phone to them OP.

I'd probably try and move him to a different school. I knew a school like this. It was absolutely awful. There were kids with mental health issues and diagnosed ASD/ADHD that were basically just thrown into isolation on a semi permanent basis. It was appalling.

Is it an academy by any chance? A lot of the new academies have introduced “zero tolerance” uniform and behaviour policies, partially because there was a lot of criticism of state schools for being too lax in comparison with private schools. Many parents support these policies and they also play well with politicians and the right wing newspapers.

I think if you want to start a campaign, you should try to be less emotional and include some serious research on what effect “zero tolerance” policies may have on some young people, for example those with SEN.

Detentions for no pen or shirt untucked sound normal to me. The solution is not to argue but to help/encourage DCs to follow school rules and dress tidily and take pen etc. Consider the teacher who every lesson has to listen to a chorus of 'I haven't got a pen' and find some to give out before they can even start teaching.

As a parent you are 'once again' crying down the phone to them? And setting up facebook groups. This is never going to change anything.

A more constructive way forward might be to arrange a meeting with, say, the head of the year to make a complaint? And escalate to the governors if you feel necessary?

But while that's progressing, encouraging him to be more organised can only be a positive thing any way?

Stop crying down the phone and talk to your son about remembering a pen and tucking his shirt in
My dd is at a very strict school and has ( almost) made it to the end of Y9 with no demerits or detentions- she’s not an angel but she does know the rules and follows them
A NT child is capable of avoiding detention 99% of the time

Thank you Selly24, Aventurine, Lougle and museumum for the reasonable, fair, replies.

A few reminders here and nudges there for NORMAL teenage behaviour and sometimes forgetfullness does not need and SHOULD not result in a punishment like detentions and internal exclusions

WOULD YOU GET PUNISHED IN SIXTH FORM OR FIRST YEAR COLLEGE FOR FORGETING A PEN WHEN IT IS VERY EASY TO GO GET A SPARE BUT TO MAKE MORE OF AN EFFORT FOR NEXT TIME AND THOSE STUDENTS ARE STILL UNDER ADULT AGE .... ???

WOULD A SIXTH FORM STUDENT BE TOLD TO TUCK THEIR SHIRT IN? OR ELSE???

GET REAL??
I am sorry but come on. These are normal everyday occurenc's that should not warrant punishment and if you believe they do than I am glad I am not a child in your home.

Shouting doesn't make you right. It just makes you look like you can't have a rational grown up conversation.

Agree with PP he should just follow the rules.

The caps are for making my point.. which is extremely valid

He does follow the rules.
However some teachers are inconsistent and some teachers are extremely anal.. That in itself is confusing for children and not helpful for anyone.

There are many little facets and grey areas why children may get into trouble. I am of the belief that secondary schools are petty in some of their rules. But having one or two teachers who are more tolerant than a few others is not helpful on helping to uphold those very rules.

Did you not have to sign a gone-school agreement. That should have set our expectations and it's at that stage you walk away if you are not happy.

I have 2dcs at secondary, how the eldest hadn't had more detentions I don't know, I wish he would but even he always manages to have a pen and tuck his shirt in (just, wash himself and do decent homework less so but just enough to not get into trouble.

Why do you/he think having a pen is so difficult?

Do you understand the disruption at the start of lessons if half a dozen kids don't have pens, books etc ? Do you or have you ever worked in a school ?

He doesn’t follow the rules if his shirt is hanging out and he hasn’t got a pen.
It’s not being “anal” to expect students to bring a pen to school.
I would also bet that a student walking around looking a mess and arriving to lessons without the equipment to do work is a royal PITA in other ways.

My son's pen broke in a previus lesson and wasn;t working in the next and he didn'r have a spare at the time. First time ever.

When did i say my son had got a detention for having his shirt untucked?
I am using examples of reasons i know detentions are given.

So you think that one off situation (first in 2 years) was worthy of a detention?

In that circumstance yes, how on earth did he only have one item? Mine have at least 2 pencilcases to carry all the stuff they are supposed to as they know that not having stuff is automatic detention. Harsh but the rules and makes it easier for me as a parent as the kids are learning consequences for their (in) action. Had helped DC2 become much more organised and responsible for fear of getting a detention.

It's also easier for me as takes me out of the equation.

It is also standard here now all the schools are academies, once school local to me gives detention if kids don't have full maths stuff even if they don't have maths that day, thankfully ours are more sensible

Yes, sorry. Having one pen is daft. What if it breaks, runs out of ink, stops writing? I do a lot of writing at work. I have a pen clip on my uniform with one black pen, 2 4-colour pens and 2 mechanical pencils. If I can't write, I can't do my job, so I make sure I'm prepared.

Avoid detentions by doing the right thing.

I’d guess the school is trying to raise standards, and make/keep it a place where all pupils have their best chance of learning effectively. Support them.

If he didn't have a pen they can't treat him any differently to anyone else. Ensure he has the correct equipment (including more than one pen) and it won't happen.

Op I used to be a teacher and I would typically give out about 10 pens a day (bought by me). I used to buy Bics as anything cheaper just breaks. You cannot have any idea, I feel, how much of a, delay and a pain it is to have several students ask for a pen at the start of each lesson. Carry several pens is the answer, then when they "explode" he has another.

WHEN IT IS VERY EASY TO GO GET A SPARE

How is it easy for him to 'go get a spare'? Is there a shop in school. Is he excused from class to go there and buy a pen? I doubt it.

This is why he should be more prepared. But obviously, as his parent, you disagree and are therefore not teaching him this important life skill.

Maybe you should help him out a little and rethink that stance.

I have some sympathy. I think it can really confuse kids about what is actually bad behaviour. It's important to me that they treat kids with reasonableness and respect. Think I'd be looking at other schools in your shoes.

So you think that one off situation (first in 2 years) was worthy of a detention?
Yes.
Without knowing the school's policy, I'm not getting into personally agreeing/disagreeing etc.

However, school rules have to apply to ALL students (with reasonable adjustments and support for SEND obviously). A behaviour policy that says Alex gets a detention for X but David doesn't because I like David is a flimsy policy not fit for purpose and staff taking it upon themselves to pick and choose when they follow the policy is annoying.

I gave a behaviour system warning to a student and recorded it last week and he said 'oh you're not logging that are you... I'm dead good in your lessons, I thought you liked me'. I pointed out to him, and the class, that whether I like a child isn't the point. The point is they'd got to the point in the system where it needed recording and that was down to their actions. My liking/disliking doesn't come into it otherwise we have a situation where 'nice kids' can get a free pass and those with reputations for behaviour are jumped on without a reasonable chance.

Your DC should have appropriate equipment for school. They didn't.

I don't really understand why you and your son are crying about it. This is fairly standard. We have similar policies and there are hundreds and hundreds of our children who have NEVER had a detention.

My workplace is full of young adults (staff) who haven't learned to be organised, prepared and have their shit together.

It's fucking exhausting having to spoon feed being an adult to an adult. Why they haven't learned the basics by that age is beyond me.

Make sure he knows to have what he needs in the morning before he leaves. Job done. It's ridiculous not to imo.