Sick and tired of this... [sad]

[DemiLee33]

Hello everyone and thanks for listening.

I am at breaking point with my son's secondary school teachers/policies.

For I.E for ridiculous, unwarranted punishments.
Detentions for not having a pen or a shirt untucked.
Most good students in secondary schools are in I.e at least once within their first 2 years of starting. Most students have had at least 10 detentions by the time they have completed year 8.

Once again I have been in meetings, lodged complaints, cried on the phone to them. My son has cried and is so low in mood now because he feels beaten down by them. I have had 2 teachers admit to me that a lot of 'normal' 'good' kids are in i.e or on report.

Their policies are awful! Nationwide, secondary schools are so extreme with their punishments for such ridiculous, unwarranted reasons. Some schools have even started saturday morning detentions!!
I am so tired of not having my voice heard. Anyone else feeling like this? I have started up a fb group to vent about this and it may take off it may not. I have emailed relevant organisations and lodged complaints but these schools are a law unto themselves.

Sorry for moaning
xx

MitziK, what you wear is up to you. I don’t have an opinion on it as it is none of my business.

Also, detention is not exactly water boarding or picking oakum! It's 10 minutes to half an hour reflecting on how you should probably get your shit together in future.
Exactly.
Our school rules state we should sanction over equipment issues, but as with every step on the behaviour policy there is a warning/amnesty first. Someone forget a pen once, I'll lend one but it has to come back (because firstly it's a loan & secondly it's my money being spent). Happens again, detention at break, no more than 10 mins. It's amazing how many manage to be prepared with a pen vs a previous school where all the little things were ignored because a sizable minority of parents felt their darlings shouldn't be troubled by simple expectations.

And no, students don't work out when it's important to follow rules for safety.

Parents don't like their children being shown images of degloving injuries or scalping and I'd far rather they had already learned that if you are told to wear something/do something particular with your hair that you do it before they're arguing the toss in front of a pillr drill or lathe,

In your examples oliversmumsarmy those clothes are appropriate. For school, a uniform is required. If you're a police officer you have a uniform, plenty of other jobs too. Why is this difficult to understand?

Try working in a school and then come back and comment.

Also in ds’s school detention was isolation so what exactly would have been the difference between an untucked shirt and verbal abuse? The only difference appears to be exclusion which to a lot seemed a win win.
No school what more could a child want.

Scalping is a step too far but I’d be fine with students being shown photos of degloving injuries and then being told it can happen to your face. I actually think it might be more effective. I’m not squeamish and haven’t brought my children up to be either. That is showing them the realities of what could happen.

Oliver - so if your dd is doing a job which requires LBD & heels, I'm guessing her employer would not expect her to rock up in her brother's paint splattered jeans, right?

It's not about training kids to wear 'office wear' - it's about understanding that you turn up dressed for the activity & in line with the expectations - whether that's scuba gear or a tutu.

Most sixth forms err on the side of asking for 'professional dress' as otherwise you'd have half the kids dressed for Saturday night downtown & the other half dressed for Sunday sleeping off a hangover.

Smart, tidy, no offensive slogans & covers your bum is all we'd really like to see - it needs to be a bit more prescriptive so we aren't endlessly arguing about a pair of ratty leggings here or a sweary tshirt there.

Siouxsie was my sixth form fashion role model, many years ago. I'm all for a bit of rebellion. I quite cheerfully switched my pvc mini skirts for sweeping black Victorian mourning garb in the end

And dds school didn’t really have the masses of rules and regulations

You said this was a specialist school? I'd anticipate smaller classes and different expectations from a fully mainstream school.

I've worked in schools where rules about uniform and equipment weren't enforced. The level of "big" defiant behaviour was far far worse. Students had no consequences for the small stuff and the big stuff was met with detentions. It was worth telling a teacher to fuck off if all you had to do was stay for 15 minutes. Current school you'd be isolated for that behaviour.

You’d have half the kids dressed for a Saturday night downtown & the other half dressed for Sunday sleeping off a hangover

And the problem with that is?

Of course a plumber would get fired if they turned up without any tools! Maybe not from their entire job, but if I had called a plumber to my house and he arrived with no equipment and had to 'pop out' to go and get some??? I'd tell him not to come back and write a negative review on check a trade and so he'd lose out on money for the day and his reputation.
It literally baffles me how parents can get like this about straightforward school rules. Have a pen, tuck your shirt in, wear school shoes. Those are the expectations of most schools, it's really really easy to follow them.
If you literally HATE uniform rules etc why don't you try to find a school that doesn't have those rules? Why don't you set up your own school? The 'Shove Your Rulez Up Your Arse' school for hard knocks and free thinkers.

Detention is being kept in lunch or after school. Isolation is sat in a small room with desk dividers instead of normal lessons.

How did detention become the same as isolation?!

Teachermaths

But a lot of places with uniforms the company or organisation provide the uniform and for those with a loose uniform policy there isn’t a strict policy for what is worn underneath. And you get paid to wear the uniform.

If something happened during the day and a shirt became untucked I very much doubt a police officer would be made to sit facing a wall for an hour as punishment

In ds’s school detention was sitting in a small room staring at a wall for an hour

You’d write a negative review and trash his reputation ? I’d not expect to pay him for the missing hours but I would just expect him to go back, get the tools and get started. Because I am a nice person.

School uniform does have a strict policy. If you don't like it, don't send your child to that school. Having witnessed the horrific bullying that takes place on non uniform days, I wouldn't like a relaxed uniform.

The police officer would be reminded to tuck it in. Just like students are the first time. The police have a very strict policy which includes facial hair and hair styles.

I’ve worked places with a loose uniform policy. Great. Less thinking about what to wear, cheaper and still allows you a bit of individuality. It’s the strict policy I dislike.

By your getting paid logic, students should get paid for wearing uniform.... Riiiight

I'd assume you have the money to provide the clothes for underneath. You're lucky.

Students who have 2 shirts and alternate them all year don't have this luxury. Why should they stand out?

This is like a parents evening appointment where the awful parents won't leave.

And won't accept that their kid having neon green hair, three facial piercings and wearing jeans instead of school trousers might be unacceptable in a classroom.

And also insists the teacher should buy their kid a pen.

harper30

We are talking about one piece of equipment not everything.

You do realise that workmen don’t keep every single piece of equipment in their van.

I have had plumbers/electricians etc pop out to go and get a specific piece of equipment.

It never crossed my mind to sack them off on the spot and leave them a stinking review.

I have had builders have to go out and buy a new drill after their old one had burned the motor out trying to drill through our walls.

Should hi have sacked them off for not carrying a spare drill?

Outside school the world operates completely differently to how teachers think it operates

In fact if we are sticking with the plumbing analogy... there has been a spate of tool thefts around here, some in broad daylight. Police have issued warnings to people that if they have a secure place they can leave them to not leave tools in vans and to take only minimal tools out to a job, so there is every possibility the might have to go back for something.

Disorganised - because, & I say this as a terminally scruffy middle aged goth, it's reasonable to look smart-ish when you're in a formal educational setting.

Then you wear your clubbing stuff for going out, & your pjs for slobbing out.

It's not difficult!

& then, once you're an adult, if you want to dig your allotment in a sequinned boob tube or attend your grandma's funeral in a hello kitty onesie, obviously you can.

But schools, like lots of workplaces, have dress codes. Smart trousers/skirt & a shirt is the expectation at my school. Sensible, comfortable, & we can all forget about what we are wearing (staff too) & crack on with teaching & learning.

Outside school the world operates completely differently to how teachers think it operates

Nope.
I don't think our rules are really based on the outside world.
They are based on getting students to stick to rules and follow policies or see the consequences. These rules are given up front before you join the organisation and you have the opportunity to go elsewhere.

The same in work. If you don't follow the holiday booking policy, you don't get the holiday request granted.

The police officer would be reminded to tuck it in. Just like students are the first time

But that is the whole point. Children are not reminded to tuck the shirt in they are handed a punishment immediately.

You do realise we are talking about essentially the ONLY PIECE of equipment a child needs to take part in almost any lesson?

One pen.

Literally one pen.

It's an exact equivalent. No pen = no written work done at all without the teacher having to provide the pen = a plumber turning up to my house to fix the boiler and expecting me to provide the tools. And do so with a cheerful smile.