Daughter accused of being racist

[Loopylou19861234]

oopylou19861234

Hello i am not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes.... i need advice please.
Yes yesterday I had a phone call from my daughter's stating that there had been an incident of a raciel nature full stop when I enquired what had happened I was told that during a game on the playground my 7 year old daughter had referred to a boy as the Black Boy this was used in descriptive nature not as an insult but nevertheless she was pulled out of class for the rest of the day but up for racial insults which is going on her permanent record and is being referred to the board as a serious matter I am very confused over this matter as I don't think it's true or correct that my daughter has been branded a racist by the school what can i do?

FirstPrevNextLast9

Poor kid. You need to talk to the school and find out more. So far it just sounds like a description. You look for the most distinctive feature of the person you're describing. If there is only one black child that is likely to be the first descriptor that comes to mind. Just like if there was only one boy in a red coat you'd say "the boy in the red coat" but if there were 5 you wouldn't, and if there was only one white boy you might say "the white boy". Would strike me as rather ridiculous and possibly racist to pass over that and describe them as "the boy with the curly hair" or something instead. As if skin colour is too horrible to mention. It's just another feature and a non racist child will see it as such.

(And poor 3girlmama, I couldn't work out what you'd said wrong either. Perhaps it's regional. Posters accusing her of doing it on purpose hoping you see now that lots of us had heard of the phrase in the way it was meant and not come across it as any kind of slur.)

Ffs - @3girlmama - my parents used to use the term the call a spade a spade - it's not racist at all

They also used to say 'black as the ace of spades' which is very different - you've got nothing to apologise for - somebody being very oversensitive and frankly making a mo brain out of a molehill

This type of comment stating it's racist, particularly at 7 is ludicrous and frankly the school should deal with maybe suggesting she describe
People differently - it's this type of tripe that actually diluted the whole bloody racist thing and shifts the angle of viewing perfectly reasonable language with no malice intended - bloody ridiculous

Nobody is saying the word spade shouldn’t be used.it was the context that was unfortunately accidentally offensive.

We are talking two different kinds of spades here.

1. As in the Ace of Spades on a playing card. Which happens to be black.

The saying 'as black as the Ace of Spades' is referring to colour, and I can see why people can find this offensive.

1. As in a gardening/farming implement.

The saying of calling a spade a spade is to do with number 2 is someone who doesn't pussyfoot around with prim language, but is basic and (literally) down-to-earth. So they call it a spade rather than a piece of portable agricultural earth-moving equipment.

It appears that some people now take offence to the second meaning, which has nothing to do with colour or race whatsoever. Which is unfortunate.

Well, I'm the one who wrote it and I promise I did so in total ignorance of the fact that it is actually a racial slur

I had to google it to find out why it had offended people

Now I know why, I have apologised and will not be using that phrase again as it may well offend again and the last thing I want in RL or online is to offend anyone...so again, I apologise

To the pp who finds it hard to believe it was used in innocence...you're wrong. It was used in total innocence.

I live in a very remote village far far west so I don't hear jargon banded about much and, yes maybe I'm a bit naive...but now I know that that particular phrase is not good so I shall cut it from my usage!

Wasn't it more in use as in insult in America?

I've also only ever known it to mean "tell it like it is".

Whilst racial slurs are obviously serious, this does seem a heavy handed reaction.

Should she at 7 know that skin colour as a descriptor is beast avoided?

I live in Los Angeles. My dc's attend/attended very very racially mixed schools. It's completely acceptable to use the color of skin as a descriptor. Although apparently the nuances have grown from my day (I too grew up in a very racially mixed environment). It's no longer the "black" kid or "white" or "hispanic" kid. It's now the light skinned mixed race black and hispanic kid with the afro/braids/purple hair etc. The kids are very very sensitive to anything that might imply racial insults, but using skin color/characterization as a descriptor does not fall in that category.

P.S. I am fairly face-blind so find this type of description super helpful in identifying people as it gives me signals for what to look for that I might not use instinctually because of my face-blindness.

Along the same lines, my friend's ds was punished by the school for sexually harassing a girl. He was 5 and made a comment about her breasts and food. His aunt was breast feeding at the time and that's all he knew that breasts were for at 5!!!

Crikey I’ve only ever known it as tell it as it is as well

Thank you to those who have backed me

3girl I thinkits absolutely clear now that you used the phrase in all innocence and I only commented because of the context

I know the phrase calling a spade a spade is regarded as racist and so don't use it. But I have never heard any British person use the word spade as a derogatory term for a black person. My understanding is that it is an American term, not a British one.

the phrase 'lets call a spade a spade' has been considered offensive for a very long time.

Wow, I had no idea that the basic noun ‘spade’ was now considered racist in every context.

I have used the phrase ‘call a spade a spade’ I’m sure in the past. And I call the thing you dig with in a garden a spade. And the implement my child took to the beach with his bucket is called a spade too.

‘As black as the ace of spades’ is obviously racist and I wouldn’t dream of using that phrase. But the comparison to the colour of a suite of cards is a different thing from the tool, so I’m boggling somewhat at the squishing together of language.

If the noun ‘spade’ (tool) is now genuinely understood as offensive, then I’d like to know so I can stop using it. But i am just surprised as that’s quite a significant vocabulary shift to have gone generally unnoticed to date?!

Gosh I didn’t even know “black as the ace of spades” was a racial insult.. Well I guess it would be if used to describe a person, but I’ve usually heard it in the context of describing the sky before a rainstorm (as in “better take a brolly, it’s black as the ace of spades out there).

And using ethnic descriptors of people is not in itself racist. If that is really all that was said and there was no malice behind it, then I would be complaining loudly to the school and Governors.

" But i am just surprised as that’s quite a significant vocabulary shift to have gone generally unnoticed to date?!"

more like, it is old slang, that younger people (under 60s) don't really use. It certainly has been used in a racial context, often followed by the wide eyed ' but I was just talking about a garden implement'...

Calling a black person a spade was a horrible racist term used in the seventies (when I was a kid growing up in the Midlands).
It's the sort of awful derogatory language commonly used on dreadful ITV sitcoms of that era.

Spade has definitely been used in this country. It's quite a while since I've heard it, but it was definitely in use well into the 1980s.

By the way, I have often heard the one white person in a group be referred to as the "white lady." Perhaps this is because I am in circles where often I am the only white person in the group or the only female in the group. Again, as many have pointed out, this probably varies from region to region. In Los Angeles in 2018, it's not considered insulting.

I believe it wasn’t intentional 3girlmama I also think it’s partly regional, only ever heard it in an offensive context in London, where I am now it’s all, alright duck and terms you really wouldn’t use in London but if an eye opener when I first moved here.

Surprised at the poster who said it hadn’t Ben raised in ethnic and diversity training though, I was aware of it, must be at least 20 years now. Most likely because of the circumstances though.

You can continue to dig your garden with a spade and refer to it as such. It's only offensive if you use the word to describe a black person. I think it's maybe fallen out of use as an insult but it was certainly used in the last century.

Regarding the op's daughter. I had a black female boss once and while she was at lunch a friend of her's called in. I didn't catch his name, he only popped his head round the door. When she came back I tied myself in knots trying to describe him without using the word 'black'. She eventually worked it out and said to me, somewhat witheringly, 'You CAN use the word 'black', you know!'

But with regards to the op, the school seems to be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, as a quiet word would have seemed more appropriate in this situation, and an apology if the other child had been upset. This kind of thing takes away from the serious racism that goes on in schools.

When my niece started school her mum was called in because there had been an incident. It turned out that my niece had referred to another child as the black boy with glasses when they were in circle-time. She had only just started and didn’t know everyone’s name so she used a description instead. My sister asked if the boy was black with glasses. The teacher said that he was. My sister asked what the problem was. The teacher told her that they weren’t allowed to describe people in terms of their appearance. My sister told the teacher to stop being ridiculous and creating problems where there were none. The boy didn’t have an issue with being described as black with glasses as that is exactly what he was. My niece was just saying what she saw. Sometimes I think the whole world has gone mad.

My parents would never have watched any old sitcoms that used the word spade for a black person, and maybe it wasn't used where I grew up? Heard plenty of other racist language growing up, just not that one.
OP have you checked with the school exactly what happened? You are not just relying on what your 7 year old said happened? Because kids do have a tendency to sugar coat things.

If your daughter was playing and said something like "Hey black boy, can you throw me the ball?" then that could be seen as racist, as she has used his race to refer to him, when she could've said "Hey..." or asked his name first and then made a request.

This has come from the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry report, which recommended that a racist incident should be defined as: “any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person”.

Many schools/Councils have adopted this info into their equality and behaviour policies.

I would say it depends on what exactly was said and how it was said, which you haven't given details of.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/19945/response/54507/attach/3/Guidance%20on%20Monitoring%20and%20Responding%20to%20Racist%20Incidents.pdf