Daughter accused of being racist

[Loopylou19861234]

oopylou19861234

Hello i am not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes.... i need advice please.
Yes yesterday I had a phone call from my daughter's stating that there had been an incident of a raciel nature full stop when I enquired what had happened I was told that during a game on the playground my 7 year old daughter had referred to a boy as the Black Boy this was used in descriptive nature not as an insult but nevertheless she was pulled out of class for the rest of the day but up for racial insults which is going on her permanent record and is being referred to the board as a serious matter I am very confused over this matter as I don't think it's true or correct that my daughter has been branded a racist by the school what can i do?

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I find myself hoping that OP has had a constructive conversation with the school, and that the whole issue has been resolved for everyone.

Marklahmarklah, is your default position to assume people who say they are victims of rape are lying just because you know of a case where the accusation was questionable or false? Is you default position to assume that claims of sexism are generally without credibility because you know of a case that was without merit?

Why do so many (white) people try their outmost to deny racism, taking the default position that BAME people are lying, mistaken, making a fuss, etc.

In any case, I don't see how the situation you described is equivalent to this situation involving the OP's daughter. Here, a definite link was made to the boy's race and he was specifically addressed. He then complained. In your scenario, no direct reference was made to race and no one in particular or specific group was targeted. Indeed it sounded like a spurious claim but to use this example to doubt the genuineness of the boy's complaint is disgraceful.

Has it be ascertained that she does not know his name? Do any of us really know the context, tone, intent, etc?

All we know is that the boy complained because he felt hurt by what was said. The school decided it was serious enough to take action.

Read the thread! He was not specifically addressed, the girl was pointing across the playground to him and the OP has confirmed at least three time that the child did not know his name - there's no reason to doubt this, it was the first day back at school after all.

So if she was not referring to him specifically, who is this other little black boy was she pointing at or talking about? A fictitious one? Another little boy? And while there is, as you say, no reason to doubt the DD's daughter, is there reasons to doubt the little boy who clearly believed the comment was aimed at him, so much so that he complained?

The twists and turns are getting even more bizarre.

By the way, I've read every single comment in here and I have read the OP's posts. Everything points to the boy being the subject of the "black boy". Everything the OP said suggests that the comment was about him. The OP's daughter was speaking about the very little black boy who made the complaint. However, I stand corrected if there was another little black boy that the OP's daughter was pointing to or speaking about.

Presumably you're not claiming that the little girl was speaking generally about black boys when she referred to and pointed at someone.

What is BAME? (I'm new to MN)

3GirlMama; Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic.

BAME has already been explained in this thread and isn’t an MN abbreviation. As you are the poster that made the “ spade” error I hope this thread is enlightening for you.

I really find some people's attitude toward me very offensive, which I know you will point out is ironic!
However, I do not know every abbreviation there is for every single situation or discussion....even in the field in which I work where abbreviations are used literally all the time!
It is very ignorant ( yes, irony again) to assume everyone knows everything about everything!
I simply asked what something stood for, and seeing as MN uses abbreviations for practically most sayings and BAME is something I haven't ever seen/come across before I thought it was a MN abbreviation which I think is a reasonable assumption to make. Because I didn't know what it meant, doesn't mean anything negative or that I need enlightening. If I asked you what certain abbreviations meant that I use daily and I thought you should know what it meant I wouldn't be rude about it. I'd politely say what it was and leave it at that.
Now, I'm leaving this thread. Thank you to all those who are nice and FU to all those who aren't 😘

@3girlmama it has been explained previously so I don’t understand why you are know complaining people are pointing that out. Your post is coming across very much like this: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/how-white-women-use-strategic-tears-to-avoid-accountability

Try learning how to google.

Can't believe people are reading malice or lies into a 7 yr old not knowing someone's name. But even if being the only black boy in school would cause instant fame, which I do not accept, I don't think OP ever said he was? he only had to be the only black child in the group of kids he was standing with at the time for the description to be helpful.

Addressing someone means talking to them. OP DD was referring to the boy not addressing him, he just happened to get close enough to overhear from what OP said.

I hear you, 3girl;

@catkind you dont know that. In actual fact the op didnt know that or the full details that surroubded the incident she was due to go in and discuss this with the school. However since then has not come vack on the post so we may never know. The discussion was base around aseries of what ifs and side conversations about other aspects of racism.
3girlmama I think its somewhat ironic after all the posts suggesting that black people are oversensitive when it comes to descriptions that you throw a tantrum over people responding to your questions with clear informative answers and claim to be victimised as a result.

I’m not reading malice or lies into her not knowing his name. I just don’t believe that her calling him the black boy is why she got punished. Unless the teacher knew she knew his name, she’d be warned about saying something in a certain tone last year or another reason. That’s just not a reason for a child being told off.
However, I do have an issue with posters who think it’s ok to constantly point out others colours. It’s been pointed out that it’s othering so instead of pushing the blame onto the people you are offending reflect and think honestly if you’d like it daily. The issue isn’t you pointing it out the issue is you are the 100th person this week to point it out.

Catkind, I can't believe you are reading malice or lies in the 7yr old black boy's complaint. Or would you just claim he doesn't know what he is talking about and is in the wrong? Are you claiming his complaint cannot possibly have any merit? There are two 7yr old here. Not just one. His feelings matter too.

7 year old can act out of malice. They say unkind things to each other. Hence why they are taught to be kind and corrected when they are not.

7 yr olds bully each other and we even hear of them assaulting each other.

In any case, as most people have conceded, the OP needs to ascertain what exactly happened, why the school reacted so strongly to the boy's complaint. At this stage we do not know if the OP's DD acted out of malice. If it was only referring to the boy as "the black boy", with no malice then the school has massively overreacted and the little boy should be spoken to. If the context, tone, and intent suggest malice, then the school is right to punish. 7yr olds can be punished. Why shouldn't they?

Either this is a much more complicated story than we are being told or the school has reacted very strangely, not following any procedure I have ever heard of. The absence of the OP suggests the former.

At 7 years old I would expect education rather than punishment they are still so young and have spent most there lives with potentially racist parents they genuinely might not know any different

Discipline is part of education. Sometimes words may not be sufficiently reflect the gravity of the infraction.

When my 6 year old does something wrong, I sometimes educate through words only. Other times I used both words and punishment such as denying him time on his IPad, etc.

Racism is not a victimless crime. It does enormous damage to those on the receiving end. Some of us may never be able to comprehend the extent of the damage and anguish but we can at least try. Trying to minimise and excuse even the tiniest of racial abuse and its impact should have to place in today's society.

Excusing each incident of abuse as minor ignores the fact that each such incident is grossly wrong but not only that, imagine this little boy experiencing a several such incidents a day, and you can bet him will. Many times a day, throughout his experiences of that day (watching TV, the books he reads, the things people say to him, etc), his race will be used to exclude him. He'll get the message several times a day that he is "the outsider" and somehow lesser.

Let's not pretend we don't know this.

We have to assume that the little boy was unhappy about being described as 'the black boy' otherwise he would not have complained to his teacher.

The op hasn't stated whether the two children are in the same class or how long they might have been at the school together. She does say that there were 7 or so other children with her dd at the time - I assume that these children have been spoken to as witnesses or bystanders in the matter. What do they say?

Having (very) briefly looked at the guidelines concerning racial incidents - the school are right to log the matter and investigate:

any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person".This recommended definition is not to prejudge the question of whether a perpetrator's motive was racist. The purpose of the definition is rather to ensure that investigations take full account of the possibility of a racist dimension to an incident and that statistics are collated on a uniform basis:” (Code of Practice on Reporting and Recording Racist Incidents, Home Office)

However, the guidelines for schools also state that there is no reason to punish the (alleged) perpetrator any more severely than they would for any other acts of bullying (e.g. name-calling), therefore removing a 7 year old girl from the classroom for half a day appears to be excessive.

The 'record' on the girl's file should be a one line reference containing a log number and date reference only.

the phrase 'lets call a spade a spade' has been considered offensive for a very long time

This is the first time I've heard that. I have often used it in the context of telling something as it is - being perhaps a little tactless. But absolutely nothing to do with race.

I've only got to page one so far but

'Ginorchoc

It is considered racist due to the word spade being used as a derogatory nickname for a black person. I’m aware it’s a racist term'

I have never heard that in my life and the phrase which 3girl used is a common phrase where I live. Something I hear regularly.

Well you learn something new every day.

I never knew that phrase was offensive either.

Anyway off to the seaside, I will need to go find my bucket and sand moving tool.

I've worked in schools with year R to year 3 so this age.
For me it depends on the context.
Many children of this age when asked who was the one who did or said something by a teacher or who has the ball or who is on at catch or who is winning the game will be descriptive.

If I asked who had the ball or who was the leader or such to a seven year old and they didn't know the child's name then them using the description of the black boy, the small boy, the boy with red hair etc wouldn't be uncommon.

Just like when I did painting with five year olds and they were doing portraits of their partners and another child corrected the child painting his partners skin as pink because the boy was a black boy.
It was just descriptive.

For the avoidance of doubt- calling a spade a spade is only racist when it's used on a thread about racism with a knowing side-eye nod to Jim Davidson. Which, to quote a famous literary figure "any file kno". Or, if they don't know, 30 seconds reflection should reveal to them.