Daughter accused of being racist

[Loopylou19861234]

oopylou19861234

Hello i am not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes.... i need advice please.
Yes yesterday I had a phone call from my daughter's stating that there had been an incident of a raciel nature full stop when I enquired what had happened I was told that during a game on the playground my 7 year old daughter had referred to a boy as the Black Boy this was used in descriptive nature not as an insult but nevertheless she was pulled out of class for the rest of the day but up for racial insults which is going on her permanent record and is being referred to the board as a serious matter I am very confused over this matter as I don't think it's true or correct that my daughter has been branded a racist by the school what can i do?

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some would say, oppressive weight of history that is attached to being a POC. It isn't the same thing at all

I would rather be called black than a "person of colour".

Thank you, biscuitmillionaire

And I’m white and I have heard the word spade used as a form of racist abuse..

County policy for any racial incidents states they must all be reported to the local authority no matter how minor. This is from a training and monitoring perspective more than anything else.
They also define racism as comments associated or linked to race that anyone finds offensive. If the same incident had happened with all white people then it could still be considered as racist even though it might be "victimless".
I suspect that if the incident happened as you've explained, then it might not be the first incident in the school recently or there could be more to it from the other child's perspective.

It's a really useful discussion and learning point to have about what is and isn't acceptable language to use but I can totally understand your frustrations linked to it. Especially if the school aren't using it as a learning point.

I know the phrase calling a spade a spade is regarded as racist and so don't use it. But I have never heard any British person use the word spade as a derogatory term for a black person. My understanding is that it is an American term, not a British one

It's been widely used as an offensive term to refer to people of colour since the late 1950s, at least, in the UK, and appears in popular literature of the 1960s such as the works of Colin MacInnes who at the time was a bestselling author, his work was also filmed later in the 80s. So no it's not purely an American term and, even if it were, a phrase does not automatically cease to be a racist term if it's an 'imported' racist term!

And of course you can call the thing you dig your garden with a spade. You can even say "I call a spade a spade" What you can't is use either the word or the expression with a Jim Davidson like wink to the camera when in the presence of or when talking about black people. It's quite simple. Use good manners and you'll be fine

Thanks Bertrand for cutting through the BS with your usual precision. Methinks the original poster doth protest too much!

People, people....

Using the phrase ‘to call a spade a spade ‘ in common conversation is not offensive. It simply means ‘tell it like it is’

To refer to a black person as a spade (a la 1970s American films) is offensive.

3Girls happened to use the phrase in a context which made it look like a racist joke.

She has apologised.

Back to the OP. You need to go in and find out exactly what happened and what was said. The exact words and how she said it. Listen to what they say, ask questions, give your point of view.

As far as I know, whilst a school does record racist incidents, they don’t keep permanent records on your child’s record. Ask for clarification on this.

Although in adult contexts, it is nuanced as to how necessary / gratuitous it is to use a description of race / colour simply describing someone as black is not an insult, as black is not a bad thing to be.

However, context is all.

Why are you using the term POC? We're in the UK, not America

You may be, you have no way of knowing where each of the posters are from.

*I get fed up with people asking me "where are you from? No, originally"

Everyone reacts to these things differently. I think the point is find a different, better descriptor. Yeah, the kids are only 7 now. But that small boy has got a lifetime of this ahead of him. *

As someone who has also had a lifetime of dealing with the same, I honestly don't have a problem with it. My eyes look different to the average English person and I am easy to identify by that fact.

And everyone who is saying "Oh, it's the same as saying someone has blonde hair" are completely ignoring the massive, some would say, oppressive weight of history that is attached to being a POC.

But we're talking about a seven year old who has no idea about this weight of history - and as for the person who said such incidents are an opportunity to teach innocent children how not to do this, well that's definitely teaching them how to 'other' when they probably wouldn't do so otherwise!

As a child we had black neighbours with children my age, with whom I was friends. I also had a golliwog doll someone had bought me. I liked his colourful clothes and then one day my mother took him away and told me golliwogs weren't nice and explained why. It taught me to 'other' in a way I had no idea about before. I had never even made any connection between my black doll and black neighbours before, they were different colours only and it meant nothing to me. My poor mother tried to be politically correct and the effect was negative.

I and many other posters had no idea the digging implement phrase was offensive. I won't be using it any more obviously. But it's also bloody offensive that people keep insisting we did know really and are being faux this or that.

I'm not that convinced describing someone by their race if it is a differentiating feature is offensive. Particularly in a school playground situation when they're all milling around in school uniform, so "third from the left" or "the older woman" (or is that offensive too) or "the one in the red shirt" doesn't work.

But even putting that aside, a young child will not know the baggage of racism and will completely innocently describe someone using the most obvious features they see. That's not the child being racist. If you think they should have described the person differently you could just tell them, isolation etc would be completely disproportionate.

But also agree OP needs to find out more from school about what actually happened.

This whole situation is ridiculous. Why can skin colour not be used as a valid descriptor? The black boy, the Chinese boy, the ginger boy... I really don’t see the problem? Are we not allowed to say black or white now?

Everyone has heard it in different contexts it seems. Continuing to discuss and repeating the same points isn’t helping the OP with what she should do.
I agree with Bertrand, ask what happened specifically yourself on Monday.

a young child will not know the baggage of racism and will completely innocently describe someone using the most obvious features they see.

Well that's not necessarily the case (not talking specifically about this thread the details of which are not clear) unless you think racist people don't have children and don't 'infect' those children with their values. Certainly I have had explicitly (and far more) racist things addressed to me by young children who were clearly parroting their parent's comments/views.

BigBlueBubble skin color would be fine, but the example you gave included a reference to ethnicity which is often used incorrectly. For example, here in Los Angeles, the term "Mexican" used to be used for all hispanics. However, there are many hispanics from other countries and/or hispanics who are many generations in the US and they all have different cultures and identities. It's now considered insulting to use the term "mexican" unless you know for sure that the person is Mexican and the reference was specific to the country of origin rather than just meant to be a skin color reference. Same thing with Asians (which isn't used for Pakistanis and Indians in the USA).

TBH if this child is the only black child or boy in the school, all of the children would know his name so that story doesn’t hold anyway @diego. I haven’t heard it. In the group I’m thinking off the only man is referred to by his name not by his gender and the same is true of race when the person is white. This is my lived experience if the person is Chinese, Bengali etc... they are referred to as their colouring not name.

Bingo! Someone said gollywog!

Someone who has lots of black friends will be along in a minute.

Oh and someone who's husband is black and who thinks being called Sambo is "hilarious!"

Fair point Dottie, that would be a much more serious matter. School didn't seem to have reported to OP anything more than simple description here though. I'd be wanting to speak to them in person and find out what was going on if it was my DC.

@starryeyed19 I didn’t realise it was offensive to ask about someone’s heritage? I’ve had interesting conversations with people from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh about their family history, regional cuisine etc. My name is Spanish and a common topic of small talk is how my family is connected to Spain, whether I still have relatives there, etc.

Catkind yes that's what I would do too.

My ds is white.

He wasn't born in the U.K. and his name is from his county of birth. He's been told to "go back to where he came from" numerous times but it won't be considered racism as he's white.

Racism is not using the descriptor of someone's skin colour.

I didn’t realise it was offensive to ask about someone’s heritage?

It's a complex issue but discussed well in Afua Hirsch's latest book Brit(ish) if you're interested. She calls it 'the Question' i.e. 'Where are you from?' You reply London, or whatever, and there will then be a follow-up question 'But where are you really from?' in other words 'I perceived you as 'foreign' and I demand that you explain exactly how 'foreign' you are'. The follow-up question is the giveaway.

FYI a spade and a shovel are different implements.

He wasn't born in the U.K. and his name is from his county of birth. He's been told to "go back to where he came from" numerous times but it won't be considered racism as he's white.

But it would surely count as xenophobic which is a form of discrimination/prejudice.

You'd think! But then that's not racism - in a school it doesn't count. Racism is heavily jumped upon even when it's not actual racism.

It's an odd focus and I've raised it before but exclusion stats actually state racism as a reason.

Any other phobic/ism behaviour gets limited under "bullying".

Using the phrase ‘to call a spade a spade ‘ in common conversation is not offensive. It simply means ‘tell it like it is’

To refer to a black person as a spade (a la 1970s American films) is offensive.

3Girls happened to use the phrase in a context which made it look like a racist joke

I came on to say exactly this too. I'm amazed that people didn't get this. The 'joke' is in the double meaning of the word spade, it can be innocent as in the phrase, or it can be racist, and the joke 'works' because its being used to mean both at the same time.

I hope my quotes above convey that I think this is not at all funny and is highly offensive and racist. And it is clear to me the poster did not realise the double meaning so wasn't being deliberately offensive. The phrase is still fine to use, although worth being careful of the circumstances.

A similar type of joke would be the difference between a smoker saying in a normal voice 'I really fancy a fag' to clearly mean a cigarette vs someone saying in a camp voice as a gay man walks past 'I bet he fancies a fag' with an eyebrow wiggle.

Context is everything. And yes a smoker can still describe a cigarette as a fag, and a gardener can still dig with a spade.

I do wonder about quite how dim people are sometimes. Or rather how keen to pretend to not understand simple language concepts and how not to be an offensive prick. Then blame people calling out prejudice for being permanently offended.

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Lumped together not limited!