Daughter accused of being racist

[Loopylou19861234]

oopylou19861234

Hello i am not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes.... i need advice please.
Yes yesterday I had a phone call from my daughter's stating that there had been an incident of a raciel nature full stop when I enquired what had happened I was told that during a game on the playground my 7 year old daughter had referred to a boy as the Black Boy this was used in descriptive nature not as an insult but nevertheless she was pulled out of class for the rest of the day but up for racial insults which is going on her permanent record and is being referred to the board as a serious matter I am very confused over this matter as I don't think it's true or correct that my daughter has been branded a racist by the school what can i do?

FirstPrevNextLast9

@Loopylou19861234 go to school tomorrow and find out exactly what happened. You might found out there's more to this. If there isn't then I do feel the school overreacted and handled it badly. Not because they upheld the complaint made by the boy,but because of how they did it. They should've explained to your daughter what she did wrong ,why it's wrong etc. And informed you immediately. Telling her not to tell you is definitely bad form and I would complain about that.

I agree actual racism is alive and well.

So is disablism, homophobia and xenophobia.

It's just racism is jumped on when it's it true racism and the others seem to be fair game.

That's the true issue.

I can't believe the spade thing is still around after several pages. OP never mentioned it and it is a massive distraction. No more spade stuff please. Am I allowed to say "I always call a banana a banana"? Or is that offensive to some group?

This thread does remind me of some irritation I had in employment law briefings in various past jobs. You get into trouble if the relevant individual is offended, without much regard to whether a consensus of sensible others would have a problem with whatever you did or said. One person can be utterly bonkers about it but you can still be in trouble. I had some very multi-cultural classes at a university in London I used to teach at and found myself treading on egg-shells all the time as a result of the fear this induced. Earlier in life I discovered that telling Irish jokes in Boston was a very bad idea. Polish jokes were fine there though. Strangely, Irish jokes were OK in Cork. They told a lot of Irish jokes in Cork.

Love to hear back from the OP with further detail on what happened, in particular if there was more to it than the use of an accurate adjective.

I also remember a story, probably apocryphal, about Nelson Mandela being referred to as an African-American by some idiot US news anchor, at which point he pointed out that he was not AfAm but black. In the US "black" has indeed become an offensive term in some circles, and AfAm was then the next acceptable descriptor. I think Jesse Jackson was behind it but someone more clued in might want to correct me on that. Factually inaccuracy became more acceptable somehow.

Oh please NotDavidTennant. Get serious.

Rose, I'm learning and I still have loads of unconscious bias. I want to be more aware and conscious of them to ensure I treat everyone as fairly as possible (regardless of gender, race, ableness, etc).

Roguedad, can you tell me where in the US and when using black to describe a person has been deemed offensive? I'd really like to know.

Oh and what would sensible majority in your workplace look like? I'm I right in assuming that in most workplaces, the majority of sensible others would be white? If you isolate the sensible others to senior management then it is likely to be white male. Too bad for women and BAME people because they're on to a loss before they start.

It's like back in the day when women and BAME found themselves facing a jury of sensible people who looked nothing like them.

Sensible majority? With the biases already sealed in.

American negros became black became African-American. And some got very shirty about being called black when they wanted the AA label.
In meantime, Whoopi Goldberg protested that she didn't feel in the slightest African but she sure knew she was black so no AA label for her, ta. Tbh, the language changes all happened after I immigrated so I don't keep track very well. Trevor Noah did a good comedy routine about his envy at Obama being upgraded from Mixed to Black.

"Strangely, Irish jokes were OK in Cork. They told a lot of Irish jokes in Cork."
Do you also find it strange that Jewish people tell a lot of Jewish jokes?

The bottom line of the OP 's situTion is this. If the incident happened exactly as reported then it was not racist. However, whether or not it incident was racist, the school has handled it very strangely and not according to any protocol I have ever heard of. The OP therefore needs to go into the school, taking another person with her and find out exactly what happened. She needs to speak to the Head, and the Chair of Governors.

Lljk, can you tell me factually when black people in the US regarded black as a racial slur? I genuinely would like to know.

Negro and coloured: I have heard about and can understand why.

The same issue of naming has happened and is happening when discussing people with disabilities.

Nevertheless, that is no excuse for using names to dish out racial slurs. If someone makes a genuine faux pas (and Lord knows I've made many when referring to BAME people and people with disabilities) they are not in my experience referred to as racist, etc. Context and intent always matters. Teachers are fallible but they are generally reasonable. For that reason, I doubt the issue with the OP's daughter is as straightforward and benign as the OP has set out.

None of us know and we are only speculating on why the school responded so strongly.

Hello LoopyLou, firstly I have to say the teacher has not handled this very well but MacPherson says if someone hears a comment that they perceive to be racist it is. So the teacher is taking this literally.

Do not worry about this going to the GB, all we get told is that there have been x number of racist incidents, including name calling etc. We are not interested in the details unless we see a pattern emerging.

I suggest you go in and have a chat to the head, and ask her to ask the other child how he would like to be described by children who do not know him. A bit of mediation would nip this in the bud. And a bit of training would sort out the teacher too

A few pages ago now, but someone asked if by saying white was the norm, so normal, did that mean that people who weren't white were abnormal.

First thanks for taking it completely out of context, because at one point I know that I said "so called norm". I don't think that anyone who isn't white is abnormal as can be seen by everything I've said on this thread. It would have been easier if I'd said that we live in a society where racism is both institutional and internalised and of course I'd be told that I was saying everyone was racist and how dare I because I'm not a racist, etc.

The fact is that most of us, to a lesser or greater degree, are at least a bit racist. We might not think we are, we might hate racism, in fact we probably do hate racism, but it's there in every aspect of our society. The longer I live the more I understand my own internalised racism and the more I work to overcome it and the more I work to be an ally. I wouldn't be posting here if I didn't think that was important.

Re the OP, at this point none of us know exactly what happened, only the details of what the OP thinks happened. If that's all that happened then it seems that the school overreacted. If it's not then there is more to it and a little boy has been upset by it. Either way the discussion has gone beyond that and seems to be a debate about how not racist some people think they are by being a bit to assertive with people who point out that racism is still a big problem in our society.

If we could just accept that we have a long way to go and that none of us is perfect, not because we're awful people, but because we've grown up in a culture where racism is part of the air that we breathe, then we might all be happier. Or not.

To anyone who thinks that I'm being over the top about this, I'd just ask why is it, if we're a lot less racist than we used to be, that if you're a black man you're more likely to be pulled over while driving, that in fact you can be a famous black man and be pulled over, or you could be Steven Lawrence's father and be pulled over multiple times. In the US and the UK, the black population call it DWB, driving while black.

Thank you old bean 2 that is exactly what i aim to do. I have took this as a learning curve for both me and my daughter and i value everyone's thoughts on this.

Calling a spade a spade is a very common, non-offensive term. It's even in a current pop song. Never heard of a racist connotation!

It’s no coincidence that people who don’t seem able to grasp the way nuance and context change the meaning of words or phrases all seem to also be a bit thick is it really

^ you sound a bit thick to me.

Great approach Loopylou. Best of luck.

Ravenesque, point well made. It is a learning curve for us all. I too have committed to be an ally and to no longer turn a blind eye. It is the right thing to do. I'm not always brave enough but I'm trying my best to not perpetuate injustice. My conscience won't let me.

"I have took this as a learning curve for both me and my daughter"

Wht do you mean?

This (the original post, not the spade conversation) reminds me of when my DH started his new job. He was asked to take something to 'Tracy' in the other office. Obviously he was new and didn't know anyone in the other office.
So people described her to him... Blonde, 5ft6ish, dressed smartly, sits next to 'barbara' etc. So dh went hunting for 'Tracy'

When he found her, she had one arm. Yet nobody had mentioned this one, pretty destinctive unique characteristic and instead had described her in ways that could fit many in the office.

Surely if someone has a thing that describes them that makes them stand out from the crowd that's the most obvious way to describe them?

Doodlekitty i take it your husband was still able to find 'tracy' using the description he was given? so no I dont think saying she had one arm because it stands out was neccessary.

" When he found her, she had one arm. "

well he managed to find her without being informed that parts of her body were missing didn't he?
Don't you think it might be a little reductive to talk about 'the one legged man in sales' or 'One armed Tracy from accounts'? when there are perfectly good descriptors that do all right for able bodied people?

"You know-Fred from Acxounts with the enormous ears".....

'the really ugly old white woman with her grey roots showing from Purchasing?'

"The woman in Marketting with gorgeous boobs"

'the bald one from Progress that has a dreadful body stench'

( we are on a roll now, Bertrand)

Weights thank you excellent points, I believe that the OP has a right to know the procedures and policies that led to her daughter's punishment but agree a lot of 'whataboutery' and, what in other forums would be seen as, victim-blaming when it comes to the black child cited. As well as offensive comments such as associating the impact of racist and racially discriminatory behaviour/language on its victims with 'paranoia' and 'over-sensitivity!

I am tired of the 'spade' derail too, more focus on that and supporting the initial poster than on the case in hand, but just to demonstrate the term is still considered offensive and recently - not ancient history or arcane usage as some claim, here is an example from 2015 and from the Telegraph as the sort of posters who have an issue no doubt have a problem with the Guardian or similar.

"Police officers called black people 'monkeys' and 'spades'
Plebgate inquiry uncovered a raft of racist messages on the mobile phones of two officers, who have been sacked for gross misconduct By David Barrett, Home Affairs Correspondent
2:33PM BST 08 Oct 2015"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11919214/Police-officers-called-black-people-monkeys-and-spades.html

There are many, many more examples if people care to Google. However, my impression, apologies if it is unfair, from following MN threads recently that when it comes to DIY and fashion people are more than happy to do some research BUT when it comes to issues re: race/racial discrimination denial and ignorance to back up bias seems the order of business. I've been reading a book recently by a 'white' author who does training on avoiding racism and improving sensitivity to racial discrimination, it's called White Fragility: why it's so hard for white people to talk about racism I thought when I picked it up that the title was a bit over the top but reading some of the comments on here and similar threads, it's a major understatement.