if you could afford to go private, should you?

[tankerdale]

Sometimes I worry that we've got our priorities wrong. We've ended up in a lovely large home with high running costs, we've got some but not loads of savings, most of our 'wealth' is in our house. Income is very good on paper but month to month we only manage to save a small amount, if any. I work 2.5 days, DH is full time. We have a nice lifestyle and I guess eat out a bit but I don't think we're otherwise extravagant, don't spend much on holidays, run 1 car, don't spend loads on clothes etc.

3dc, 2 already at primary school. We live in the catchment of what is considered a very good non selective state secondary but it is massive.

As it stands we couldn't afford to put 3dc through private secondary (there's a nice one nearby). But have we got it wrong? Should we move to a more modest home and prioritise paying for their education?

Feeling a bit guilty that we're not putting them first. Dc1 seems v bright and will probably be ok anywhere, dc2 I'm not so sure about and too early to tell with dc3.

If they go to the state school and have any problems I'm going to wish we made a different choice I think.

So - in principle, if you can pay for private - should you?

But it is, polo is fascinating.

Beautiful ponies. Lots of handsome Argentines too

Hmm. Polo.

Happygardening is too polite to say it, but I'm not. It's not good for horses at all. They get hurt a lot, it's hideous for their joints, and particularly at the high goal end, there is a lot of cruelty.

Polo ponies are just a means to an end, its not about the pony at all. Id be the first to admit that a good polo pony is very clever at his job but they are usually devoid of personality due to the way they are kept/treated.
Personally Im a lover of a proper galloping horse, it is a beautiful sight and a wonderful feeling things don't get much better than this IMO.

Why is polo fascinating in particular? I was part of a polo regiment in the army for a while and it didn't seem fascinating at all for the horses, they seemed to be very fed up.

"To me , it seems that more people outside private education talk about networking and the importance of connections than those who actually use private education." Well, apart from all the people on this thread and others who have cited connections and networking as one of their reasons for choosing private education...........

I've not reread everything how many who pay do cite connections as a reason? As I've said in over 11 years only once were connections mentioned. Thinking about it better exam results were never mentioned either. EI suspect for most of the parents we met over the years state education just wasn't something they'd even considered.

Extra curricular activities not just sport were often given as the reason for choosing X school.

I think this site should change its name to '1%NET' since the discussions about connections and lifestyles apply to only the top 1% of the country.

I also find the posts quite remarkable , both my DDs go to a grammar school, that until i read this thread thought was quite 'posh' . I mean in the real world a FSM of 1.7% means this school is not exactly filled with disadvantaged girls.

I must though recalibrate my thinking that many of my DDs friends are instead of my initial understanding are not advantaged middle class girls but actually 'dregs'. After all they only live in 4 bedroom £600k houses and go on holiday to Spain as opposed to the 5 bedroom villas at 'Sandy Lane' over the Christmas holidays !

Here is an article fro the Independent on how UCAS personal statements disadvantage the poor.

Quote from article:
UCAS encourages applicants to write about their work and life experience in their personal statement; however there is a large disparity between the types of experiences that students from different schools have access to. Those from better-off backgrounds are able to take advantage of family connections. In a personal statement from one independent school applicant, their father is described as 'an entrepreneur who has created and sold a number of successive businesses'; the applicant has 'therefore experienced the multi-faceted world of business first hand'. Another student describes visiting an uncle in Japan and 'observing his aircraft brokerage and marketing company'. Most students from state schools are not shepherded into these prestigious looking extra-curricular activities.

Link: www.independent.co.uk/student/into-university/how-ucas-personal-statements-disadvantage-the-poor-8446381.html

But not everyone would be impressed by those clearly parent-arranged opportunities?

One would hope?!

I thought there was a bit of a backlash against privately educated kids at uni admissions?

Personal statements often go unread by universities.
There isn't the manpower to take through them and offers are made or not on the predicted grades.

And those universities departments that do have the time would be singularly unimpressed with the experiences cited.

Applications by those from the state system fail more often due to not having the correct academic profile.

I tend to believeGetaHairCut on this one.

What a dimwit to speak about your dad in a personal statement - what kind of half-baked independent school would let that slip through!!!!

My DC go to a grammar too where I'd say there were a significant number of just about managing families. But even if the demographic is posher than the other local schools - which it undoubtedly is for the moment - it's still a long way away from that of the nearest independent day school, and the demographic there is light years away from the super rich inhabitants of the very big name boarding schools which of course now include more offspring of foreign oligarchs than ever before. It's all very relative.

It would be very odd to refer to a parent's (or relative's) business in a PS unless it was directly relevant to the applicant's proposed course of study and the applicant had drawn meaningful experience from it. If you are an applicant for Vetinerary Science and you grew up on the family farm, you would be able to say something meaningful. If your mother had a marketing research firm and you were applyîng for a management degree, the chances are that you would have something insightful to write about. But mostly what your parents do is irrelevant.

And those universities departments that do have the time would be singularly unimpressed with the experiences cited.

The experiences cited have nothing to do with academic ability, so would in any case be absolutely irrelevant for the majority of university courses.

Agree that applications typically fail through not having necessary subjects, nothing to do with personal statements (which indeed for the most part go unread).

Those cringey references to parents businesses remind me of Emma Thompsons character in the university challenge episode of the young ones. "daddy sends hugs"

'. In a personal statement from one independent school applicant, their father is described as 'an entrepreneur who has created and sold a number of successive businesses'; the applicant has 'therefore experienced the multi-faceted world of business first hand'. Another student describes visiting an uncle in Japan and 'observing his aircraft brokerage and marketing company'. Most students from state schools are not shepherded into these prestigious looking extra-curricular activities'

If i was a University admissions tutor, reading those personal statements, i would take time out to see which school they were from, personally post them back to the school with this quote ' obviously your pupils are wasting their time going to University' Why waste 3 or 4 years of your life, when it is apparent that University for your pupils is just a 'JOLLY.'

We may laugh at such 'stupid ' personal statements, however what it does tell us is how out of touch with reality certain people are from public schools.

And in terms of whether such stupid letters carry any weight !

Consider this a young David Cameron was applying for Media Communications Director at Carlton Tv and 'amazingly' after a phone call from someone at the 'PALACE' he gets the job.

I think it tells us little more than a journo needed to fill a bit of space in 2013.

Personal statements often go unread by universities.
There isn't the manpower to take through them and offers are made or not on the predicted grades.

And those universities departments that do have the time would be singularly unimpressed with the experiences cited.

Applications by those from the state system fail more often due to not having the correct academic profile.

I can readily believe this.

I went from a regular comprehensive school to Cambridge. About half my year were from state schools. These days, I think it's closer to two-thirds from state schools. Still low in proportionate terms, but still.

The people interviewing us and giving us our target grades were very interested in how much we knew, how well we could talk about it, how passionate we were about our subject, and whether we showed evidence of going beyond the school curriculum (independent reading, writing and study).

They really did not give the impression of giving a shit about whether we had built an orphanage in Gambia or whatever--I don't remember the fluff I put in my personal statement coming up at all. Just as well, because there wasn't much there other than the usual hobbies, interests and a little bit of volunteering in my local charity shop and library.

I'm pretty sure that the parentally-engineered aspect of these elaborate personal-statement garnishes is well known among uni faculty, in any case.

Often the more standard hobbies are the most useful for developing the skills required for university. I.e. any kind of performance or team working hobby with progressive responsibility and encounters with new environments, such as music and sports

I certainly remember my daughters toning down drafts of the personal statement so as not to mention much about show jumping in case not very well off left wing university entrants people took umbrage! However even when they applied it was better to concentrate on why you love the subject. It is interesting that one twin has one more offer than the other this year (UCAS) and I suspect it may be that his personal statement was better - I really liked it as did the head and he wrote it himself; his twin's is not quite as interesting and yet I did not think the PS would really matter that much (and they both got AAAA at AS so not realy any exam differences and the one with the fewer offers, only by one, is applying for a slightly easier subject too).

My children always ignore more suggestions for work experience. We were in Bermuda last summer. We know someone who works in financial services out there. I thought it would be a really good idea if they worked there during the holiday - no interest at all (and why should they - why ruin your family holiday like that - I can understand the rejection but I still think it might have been a good idea although not if they want to follow their brother into working as a post man I suppose).

I have only been to that one polo match. The person who invited me has a relative who works at Buckingham Palace actually but that's nothing like as grand as it sounds as they are not senior there. Anyway we had a very nice long lunch and then the polo is really short. I had never watched a match before. The Eton boys were in the enclosure with the Duke of E. The prince from the Middle East sent a relative who turned up after the Queen a hideous etiquette error if I remember rightly. They only came when the whole match was over. I don't think I'd go again. The horses looked well cared for but I have no idea about what care they get in that sector and my sons would not join the school polo club as it involves quite a bit of time - I did suggest it. My children specialise in turning down most of my suggestions. Hopefully there is at least some minimal influence.

Flying - I haven't seen Sandy Lane mentioned on this thread but maybe I missed it.
Would you prefer rich people didn't come on Mumsnet at all?

The thread might not have mentioned 'Sandy Lane' which to 99.95% of the United Kingdom means a lane that is sandy but just about everything else attaining towards the super rich has been, 'Polo Ponies' for christ sake.

I am from the Centre Right Politically , but am finding myself regularly agreeing wholeheartedly with Bertrand about the 'attitude' of some posters to state education and more amazingly some posters disassociation with reality.

I don't know whether people post about 'polo' ponies and visiting Bermuda for 'boasting' purposes or that it is just normality to the people they see everyday.

I actually hope people post such stuff though 'boasting'. This is because if the 'rich' actually only live and work in such circles and generally believe it is quite normal to catch a private jet to Barbados , the world is in a bad place , Brexit will be the least of the 'serious' rich problems !

I like sandy Lane.

I would not be going on as many Caribbean holidays if i had to pay for kids education but purchase local school is great.

I mentioned polo but my kids are state school educated I'm also clearly further to the left politically than you are politically, even if I have had close encounters with poor polo ponies.