if you could afford to go private, should you?

[tankerdale]

Sometimes I worry that we've got our priorities wrong. We've ended up in a lovely large home with high running costs, we've got some but not loads of savings, most of our 'wealth' is in our house. Income is very good on paper but month to month we only manage to save a small amount, if any. I work 2.5 days, DH is full time. We have a nice lifestyle and I guess eat out a bit but I don't think we're otherwise extravagant, don't spend much on holidays, run 1 car, don't spend loads on clothes etc.

3dc, 2 already at primary school. We live in the catchment of what is considered a very good non selective state secondary but it is massive.

As it stands we couldn't afford to put 3dc through private secondary (there's a nice one nearby). But have we got it wrong? Should we move to a more modest home and prioritise paying for their education?

Feeling a bit guilty that we're not putting them first. Dc1 seems v bright and will probably be ok anywhere, dc2 I'm not so sure about and too early to tell with dc3.

If they go to the state school and have any problems I'm going to wish we made a different choice I think.

So - in principle, if you can pay for private - should you?

Well, there are things that cost money, like music, that are likely to be included in the fees or available as extras during the school day that you are much more likely to get at private school than at state for obvious reasons. Bullying and "bad crowd"- same chance at both. A
good private school will offer lots of "stuff" that you'll have to access separately if you choose state. But you'll have the money to do it.

Are they less likely to get bullied at private?

No, bullying happens in both sectors. Some schools are better at dealing with it than others, regardless of whether or not they are fee-paying.

Less likely to fall in with a 'bad crowd?'

No, this could happen in either sector. Privately educated children are not necessarily angels.

Less likely to have to deal with really disruptive behaviour in class?

Perhaps. It's probably easier for private schools to exclude the most disruptive kids, but this won't be an issue at all state schools anyway. Low level disruption exists in both sectors.

More likely to be motivated to try their best academically?
No. Motivation comes from within, and can be encouraged by supportive parents. However, a child lacking in motivation would probably get pushed more in the private sector.

More likely to be challenged (for very able DC)

Not necessarily - it totally depends on the school. Our experience in the state sector has been very positive.

and less likely to be 'overlooked' (for less able DC)?

Maybe. Some quiet, academically average kids might well benefit from the extra attention and smaller class sizes.

More likely to have exposure to high quality music and music-making at private?
Possibly, yes, depending on the school. However, these opportunities can be pursued outside school if desired. Children who are exceptionally talented will probably need to go outside school in any case.

On the other side, are they more likely to feel very under pressure at the selective private school?

Possibly, yes, but it depends on the school.

Less likely to develop the ability to relate to people from all different backgrounds?

Possibly, yes, but depends on many other variables.

Uh, no.

and were also astounded by the revelation that working class kids with strong accents might actually be brighter then them.
Amelia - wasn't that very rude of your friends to say that to you? (I'm assuming from your other comments you and your DH went to state school). The fact you say "they" were astounded implies several commented thus. Did you remain friends with these snobbish individuals?

Bert makes a really good point.

If you choose state education that doesn't prevent you for arranging private music lessons or sending them for extra curricular sports coaching - both of which we do.

We also spend a reasonable amount of money on what might be pretentiously termed "cultural and educational enrichment" activities e.g. Taking our children to the theatre, to see the ballet, to the local symphony, membership of the local science centres and safari park etc.

We're not beach holiday type people so our trips abroad usually involve visiting museums, historic places and art galleries.

There are lots of ways to invest in your children's education- private school is just one of them.

I went to small selective single sex private schools.

When I first saw the size of the Comp that my kids were going to go to (having actively rejected the dump Academy nearby)
I had rather a wobble

But I'm ever so glad I was able to see beyond the size t realise that in a big school there are lots of kids of lots of sorts and kids can find ones like themselves.

DD and DS are very different people.
Their friends are totally different -yet they went to the same schools

By the time I was in Upper 6th I had fallen out with most of the 40 in my year - and have not maintained contact with any of them.

Academically, my kids have excelled compared with how I did
and had better holidays and out of school activities

FWIW, I was dithering between a nice private secondary and our local comp.

This year and last year the comp got better grades (and higher value-add) than the two private schools we considered. It also has more choices for GCSE (important if your DC want to do computing or another "small" GCSE that a smaller school would not have the numbers for). One of the smaller privates also does not offer triple science ....so do your homework! The comp encourages the majority to take triple science (and gets good grades)

Never regretted choosing the comp yet. it leaves us money for extracurricular stuff (clubs, sports) and school trips.

I guess you want a guarantee that you'll never have any regrets , such guarantees in life do not exist!

Visit all schools a couple of times, ask lots of questions, talk to the HT, talk to other parents, get all the facts (which GCSEs on offer?) and THEN decide.

Good luck!

Dapple we were state educated but neither myself or my DH could be classed as "working class kids with strong accents" so those concerned didn't consider themselves rude in mentioning it.

However you are right, we didn't remain friends with those people. Once we got to university the differences in the way we looked at the world and they looked at the world became very apparent. We are now only peripherally in touch via Facebook.

This is not to say that all privately educated kids would think this way of course but it was our experience.

cross-post with Talkinpeace, are you in Hampshire too? I seem to remember talking about the same comp (but may be mistaken!)

I'm not sure why you would send your children to private school. What exactly are you hoping to buy? 'Better' friends? What does that mean? Cleverer? Richer? Because it can't be kinder, or with greater senses of humour.... Those things are not quantifiable and you can't teach them.

What else could you be hoping to buy? Better grades? Maybe I'll concede that. But maybe not. When you're researching your local state schools, the marker you need to really look at is how well the top 20% of their students do. I think you'll find it's pretty much equivalent to your private school. It's just that the private school has been able to keep out the students who might struggle, or who don't have much support at home, or who have special educational needs. All those children bring the statistics down, and your average private school certainly doesn't want them.

What else could you be hoping to buy? Protection from having to mix with said children above? How does that translate then into adult life?

Before anyone accuses me of having a chip on my shoulder, let me point out that I am a person with multiple family crests (find it hard to choose which signet ring to wear each day frankly) who did indeed go to private school, but I find myself unable to fathom why I would choose that for my own children. Studies show that privately educated people tend to enter the traditional careers such as banking and law (lovely if it's money you're after) but that it's the state educated people who do the real innovating.

We live in a fabulous society where everyone stands a chance and to shut your children off in a peculiar little sect(or) such as that of private education seems to me to be very, very narrow-minded.

Ruby
Mine went to the one with navy blazers rather than maroon / black
and thence to Symonds :-)

Ohdarling
My children were the first kids in my lineage not to go to private school for many generations
and they will do just fine academically and socially

Just a couple of points before folk get carried away with their anecdotes.

There is no evidence whatsoever that private schooled students cope less well at university. None.

In fact, the courses and institutions with high ratios of privately schooled students have the lowest drop out rates.

The worst offenders have very low levels of privately educated young people.

As for which industries have an over representation of those privately schooled ( or under representation of state schooled - take your pick) yes, law and finance feature.

However so do politics, medicine, science, tech, academia, media, publishing, fashion, business.

There is no evidence whatsoever that private schooled students cope less well at university. None.
except this
www.suttontrust.com/newsarchive/state-school-students-get-better-degrees-than-private-school-pupils-with-same-a-levels/

In fact, the courses and institutions with high ratios of privately schooled students have the lowest drop out rates.
Link please

Oh dear, this looks like it's going to descend into the usual let's slag off privately educated children.

Really don't do that, just don't. It's made up, imagined, inverted snob bullshit. You don't get better privileges, you're not unable to cope at uni. You don't frown or look down on state kids. It's all nonsense and so unnecessary. It simply derails the thread.

In fact, the courses and institutions with high ratios of privately schooled students have the lowest drop out rates.

Given that financial problems are among the most common reasons for dropping out of university, this is hardly surprising.

I think the best possible reason to send your child to a good private school (the emphasis being on good-many of them are crap and prey on people's extraordinary terror of state education!) is the cultural capital. I have had to put quite a lot of time and effort into giving my children "stuff" I consider important that they would get automatically at a good private school

We could never afford to go private, but just wanted to add that the music provision at my DC junior and secondary schools is fantastic. My DC play trumpet and they were in the music for youth finals last year in their concert band

My brother went to a private school, I went to a state school. We both did degrees, and have PhDs. Both of us experienced bullying at schools, but survived. But my brother never met anyone who lived in a flat not a house, or who didn't have lots of books, so he has a much narrower experience of the world, and a lot less understanding of people who haven't had a privileged start in life. Education isn't simply about your exam results.

You know full well talkin that your link does not support the assertion that students from private school cope less well.

It is far more nuanced than that.

As for links to drop out rates, look them up. It's all there. Each institution's attrition rate. Each institution's ratio of privately schooled student body.

But in the meantime take a wild guess at which places have the lowest drop out rates and which have the worst. Go on. A complete stab in the dark .

Is it ok to go private if parents are inarticulate? We qualify on that count and nor are we innovators.

I just wish mine would go, they have refused. I had left it too late due to mistaken trust in local secondary and a lack of confidence in family income.

OP you need to look hard at what options you have locally and choose accordingly.

broken the reasons for drop out are complex.

Of course financial problems are in the mix. As is, an institution's ability and willingness to offer financial assistance to those in need.

But there are so many other factors.

Anyway, that's besides the point. I simply wanted to point out that the assertion that private schooled students habitually struggle at degree level is incorrect.

By all means people should do as they please in respect of schooling. And if they have a choice, they should do their homework.

But to make a decision that utterly ignores the perfect storm that state education is currently facing and to instead focus on things that are factually and patently incorrect, well that's just daft.

Hobbit, no, it's not ok if the parents are inarticulate because private schools interview the parents too. Your children don't stand a chance if you don't tick the boxes. But you know that, of course.

Bluntness
I went to private school.
I am lucky enough to live in an area with good State schools.
If I lived in an area with limited access to good state schools my choices might have been different.
BUT
Bullying happens at all types of school.
Great results come out of all types of schools
Music and sports happen at all types of school
Dire results happen at all types of school
Fab supportive teaching happens at all types of school

I think its stupid to generalise between the two sectors when schools and localities vary so much.

Haircut
Of course its nuanced. Life is nuanced.

Then don't link to it as hard evidence that privately schooled students 'cope less well'.

That's just not right. And you know it.

It depends on the school tbh.

I do know old a local primary child who got a scholarship to a public school on recommendation from a teacher. Mum is very ordinary lady. I agree this is possibly a one in 20 year event! And another made the local press where a girl fed up with rowdy classes wrote to a few private school and the very posh school took her on (but the cheaper ones didn't even reply, shame on them! )

I don't know how it works out for those from such different backgrounds to the normal highly privileged pupils. Good luck to them though.