if you could afford to go private, should you?

[tankerdale]

Sometimes I worry that we've got our priorities wrong. We've ended up in a lovely large home with high running costs, we've got some but not loads of savings, most of our 'wealth' is in our house. Income is very good on paper but month to month we only manage to save a small amount, if any. I work 2.5 days, DH is full time. We have a nice lifestyle and I guess eat out a bit but I don't think we're otherwise extravagant, don't spend much on holidays, run 1 car, don't spend loads on clothes etc.

3dc, 2 already at primary school. We live in the catchment of what is considered a very good non selective state secondary but it is massive.

As it stands we couldn't afford to put 3dc through private secondary (there's a nice one nearby). But have we got it wrong? Should we move to a more modest home and prioritise paying for their education?

Feeling a bit guilty that we're not putting them first. Dc1 seems v bright and will probably be ok anywhere, dc2 I'm not so sure about and too early to tell with dc3.

If they go to the state school and have any problems I'm going to wish we made a different choice I think.

So - in principle, if you can pay for private - should you?

Not if you've got any ethics, no.

"It is not nepotism to engage actively with your social circle for the purposes of career advancement"
I guess it depends how you define "advancement" my definition of advancement; positive discrimination, promotion but who you know not by what you know its nepotism.

I actually think to accuse someone you've never met of being a hypocrite is a personal insult.

I should add that my only exception to the above would be a child with disabilities for whom mainstream education did not work. Though it's a shame state education doesn't cater for it.

I think thee thread shows that those of us who choose to pay fees do so for lots of different reasons and people either use or don't use connections they have with others. I don't think most of our family would quite think using a connnection was the done thing really and also where my children work you don't largely get into those places through connections (and I've spent quite a lot of time talking to daughter 2 about her various jobs over the last 5 years so I do know about the interivew and other processes). That does not mean I will not help a child if I can or if they ask me to do so but mostly they don't want my help and cannot be bothered with internships and work experience - their choice but it's certainly wise to get work experience whilst at university., not that anyone listens to me. In fact some firms won't hire someone connected to someone connected to the company actually - reverse nepotism in a sense. I am not saying there is no nepotism although even at my son's Royal Mail depot the recruitment procedures seem open and fair and not just jobs for the boys (or girls).

I think we all just need to work out what works for us. I would say my briliance at my career gets me on and I can think of nothing worse than most dinner parties. However I might have got work through suffering such events if I could be bothered. As it is I don't need or want it. Conversely plenty of people like that kind of event so yes some will benefit from it,. I suspect going to a good school state or private gives you more choices.

I am saying your position on this issue on this thread is hypocritical (and if you can't see that, I am astonished).

EnormousTiger - are you insinuating that no advantage whatsoever could have been taken by your daughters when choosing a careeer in law by virtue of your own knowledge and skills?

Our friends are mainly lawyers, doctors, academics, engineers,IT industry. I can see that's beneficial for work experience. All our kids are at state schools. I guess when the time comes there will be some swapping of opportunities but they Re all solid middle class professionals. No oligarchs or captains of industry as you may get in a fee paying school.

As the inimitable Dorothy L Sayers put it."[Captain Cathcart] had been educated in France, and French notions of the honest thing were very different from British ones. The Coroner himself had had business relations with French persons in his capacity as a solicitor, and could assure such of the jury as had never been in France that they ought to allow for these different standards."

I don't think happygardening is a hypocrite at all.

As I said Grewsap I think we've all got some hypocrisy in us somewhere, after all to be human is to err. I've left leanings so should probably have been grappling with my conscious more than I was when it came to paying for education. But unless IM being a bit "thick" to use a well uses phrase I fail to see how be anti nepotism/leg up and finding the whole thing unsavoury makes me hypocritical.
"No oligarchs or captains of industry as you may get in a fee paying school."
Trust me theres nothing special about either.

Ah, OK I see people take connections in a much wider sense than I was thinking. Fair enough.

I do love the idea of Bertrand strolling round La Rive Gauche sprinkled with icing sugar though

I said my children haven't got jobs from contacts. They don't need to.

I would never dispute however they have had load of advantage from me from looks/ genes, brains, the example of hard work and tons of other stuff. I can't find a law job for someone though. There is a clear recruitment process and I don't see how you could interfere in it. First you need high grades even to be able to apply electronically. Then HR people do vetting etc etc. I suppose a very few people might be able to get a foot in a door somewhere but they'd be out in two seconds if they're not up to in but not most people. Most people just get there from high grades, hard work and making applications.

Actually in terms of work experience people would be better off getting it at a local hospital or other professional than on the shop floor or even executive office of someone like Sugar or Green or Moone.

My best friend at school (private school) was not at all well off. One of my friends from school in on the Sunday Times rich list but we aren't in touch. Most of us just pick friends because we like them. It may depend on the industry eg journalism probably depends more on interns than law which has clear processes to apply for university paid vacation scheme placements.

I don't of course want to do down the advantage private school brings on a whole range of levels of course. I will have spent almost £1m over the last 30 years continuously paying fees - this is the last year (I just paid my last music lessons bill ever for example) and I think it's been worth every penny but not in our case for connections or getting jobs other than in the wider sense (one daughter asked about her cello playing at her last interview although loads of chidlren have grade 8 cello in state schools so it's hardly a unique thing to private education)....

So if people interpret connections so very widely, why do some people think you need to go to private school to get them?

There as many untruths thought and perpetuated about independent education as there are about state ed.

it's historical as well, maybe 50+ years ago connections did give you a leg up and people are remarkably slow to realise and accept that things have changed. Maybe they don't want too in many cases it's a lot of money perhaps some people justify the expense by saying that paying brings connections.

To me , it seems that more people outside private education talk about networking and the importance of connections than those who actually use private education. Like happygardening, we chose (specific) private schools for the educational opportunities offered. Networking was not a factor.

I think your probably right user7214743615 only once have I ever heard a parent at either of DS2s schools discuss "connections". This was a parent who is already a "captain of industry" so not exactly short of the odd connection work wise he was hoping for aristocratic connections.

We chose DD's school for the academics and ethos. Some of the other parents are very nice, but we are all busy working. So many lawyers! Connections at a magic circle law fi

...law firm would go me no good. I

...I don't have a law degree or training.

happy that's interesting. I've found it quite sad that a friend who is a captain of finance and industry with sons at one of the best known public schools has courted old (or even fairly old) money social connections for his family - not to give the children a leg up financially, because they completely don't need it, but out of some sense, presumably, that that's the last thing the family hasn't got. The lengths the family has gone to is fairly extreme. It's sad because they're incredibly happy as a family unit, and wealthy too - I can't see what that other aspect is for, why they seem to want it so much.

I continue to socialise with my neighbourhood friends from the children's state primary. We've been through the wars together!

That said I would help either group of parents out if I could. I generally like people, am interested in them, and enjoy being helpful.

My sons' school keeps putting the two pictures they have of boys doing polo on the front of a brochure even though just about no one does it which I always find amusing. obviously they think some parents are impressed by that kind of thing. I was once invited to polo by a client with some arabs and took my daughter. In fact we saw the Queen and Prince Philip who were over a barrier in a separate area with boys from Eton actually. It was an interesting afternoon. One of my older children was in a polo club at university for a while. But that wasn't to get a job - the girls just spent most their teens years outside with horses.

I suppose that huge love for them came out of my working full time so we had 8 weeks school holiday to fill for the children. Child I's school (fee paying) when she was 5 had a 2 week day summer camp (bit like a PGL) and they offered as an additional option riding at a local stables,. She loved it. And that was that. By the way what I feel they got from the riding stables was mixing with all kinds of people particular very badly off people mucking out stables and all the kinds of people thrown together by love of horses. It was fascinating. When my teenage son wanted his own fast broadband line instead of a horse though I jumped at it.... been much cheaper, laughing as I type.

"but out of some sense, presumably, that that's the last thing the family hasn't got."
goodbye a very similar story to the family I know, who are delightful, they were after royal connections, as in your example they definitely had everything else in spades.

DS2 loves riding I suspect he sadly inherited it from me, he's has been around horses from a very early age although not as young as DS1 who sat in his car seat in the back of a stable from a few weeks old whilst I mucked out my horse. He fortunately has no interest, two riders in any one family is enough. Horses are great levellers, as are the people who work with them who as Enormous says come from all backgrounds.
We live in horse country amongst other equestrian disciplines there are loads of polo round here but I've never been to a polo match in my life, I just don't fancy it, its just not my cup of tea frankly and its not really about the ponies themselves.