if you could afford to go private, should you?

[tankerdale]

Sometimes I worry that we've got our priorities wrong. We've ended up in a lovely large home with high running costs, we've got some but not loads of savings, most of our 'wealth' is in our house. Income is very good on paper but month to month we only manage to save a small amount, if any. I work 2.5 days, DH is full time. We have a nice lifestyle and I guess eat out a bit but I don't think we're otherwise extravagant, don't spend much on holidays, run 1 car, don't spend loads on clothes etc.

3dc, 2 already at primary school. We live in the catchment of what is considered a very good non selective state secondary but it is massive.

As it stands we couldn't afford to put 3dc through private secondary (there's a nice one nearby). But have we got it wrong? Should we move to a more modest home and prioritise paying for their education?

Feeling a bit guilty that we're not putting them first. Dc1 seems v bright and will probably be ok anywhere, dc2 I'm not so sure about and too early to tell with dc3.

If they go to the state school and have any problems I'm going to wish we made a different choice I think.

So - in principle, if you can pay for private - should you?

happy you've always made it very plain that you had no interest in the other parents at your DC's schools.

So of course you have never contributed to or availed yourself of the pool of expertise. It's a two way street. Like all communal experiences.

Well, I suppose that means I'm very lucky in my son's school- the lower orders do love a big vulgar special occasion cake!

This thread clearly demonstrates that we all pay or not for different reasons. Many morally object to independent education; why should so few have so much more just because their parents can afford to pay? I can sympathise with this view. Others believe that if they pay their DC's will get better exam results, there will be less bullying, better pastoral care, I think the very much depends on the individual child and the individual school. Others want a broader curriculum, better sporting opportunities, Greek Latin etc. and then many pay because state education just isn't even on their radar. then of course there's those who want "connections" and "pool of ideas and expertise well beyond their own"
With the never ending funding cuts being experienced in state education and the contrasting increasing wealth generated by many schools in the independent sector by the yearly increase in fees and the current desire by many from China Russia etc for their DC's to attend an English school then the divide between one and the other is gong to become even more obvious and I suspect many more parents will start to seriously consider paying is the best option for their DC's.

I've definitely no interest in them as barristers investment bankers or corporate lawyers, hedge fund managers etc. Im happy to chat to them over the odd glass of wine and canapé at a school function but I wouldn't dream of using them as "connections" its just not done IMO.

happygardening - it's not an either/or scenario. You can make friends connections right through life. Indeed, both DP and I have reconnected with many people we were already connected with because our DC ended up, entirely independently, at the same school.

happygardening - you don't use your DC's friends' parents as "connections" because you haven't bothered to make friends with them!

I doubt many of us pay fees with the sole intention of making connections.

But I'd say it's bound to happen when you put certain types of people in an environment with a common purpose and opportunity to interact.

Put me anywhere, from a bus stop to a sideline and I start a conversation. I'm not looking to capitalise on it. I'm just interested in people.

I agree with happygardening. Am happy for chit chat and that's it. I'm a drop and run kind of mum. The idea of cultivating connections makes my blood run cold. If they are friendly and fun they can come for dinner and be amusing.

But inviting someone over for dinner is making a connection. How could it be anything else?

Oh, come on, Get, stop being disingenuous. You know perfectly well what people mean when they list "connections" as a reason for choosing private school. I have say It seems a little vulgar to me- but what do I know.........

This is great, this turn of the thread. I was in the City at a time when nepotism was rife; my father ('50's to '90's) even more so :) It used to amuse him greatly. Hasn't it had its day? I'm with happygardening on this - I talk to people as people; I don't quiz them about their jobs and wouldn't dream of touching anyone for an work placement for my DC. My DC can find out all they need to about various careers through the usual school or university channels; they don't need me to suck up to anyone to get a toe in the door and would be appalled if I did.

So Bobo, exactly what part did your assiduously courted picnic and dinner party connections play in boosting your DSSs' respective success? In particular did your DSS1 get any of his many internships in the City through connections either in part or in whole, or did he achieve them purely on merit? If the former, doesn't that concern him in any way? If the latter, how come you rate the value of your connections so highly, other than purely as friendships?

I'm interested in people too Carl, but that doesn't mean I use them.

Not remotely disingenuous.

People without any real experience say 'connections' in a dark, disapproving way. Or dismiss anyone who isn't a Viceroy as not a proper connection.

But a connection just means someone you have shown some interest in and made a connection with.... A two way street of human interaction.

And yes, some of those connections will be useful in certain circumstances. And you will be useful to them. This is just normal human stuff.

It's making a connection as a friend. I have no interest in even hearing much about their jobs and even less in getting dds a job there.

goodbye it's not using someone to ask their advice or for help.

I don't feel remotely 'used' when people ask me incessantly about my industry.

I have a very niche job and I've heard all the quips, the same questions over and over again.. It's boring I assume others are the same.

I don't get that bored of the questions.

Well I might. But I'm realise that people are interested. So that fine. If they're nice, I'll happily connect with them about it.

I made some great 'connections' at my old school, like the bloke who knows how to get Sky TV for FREE , similarly the woman who can make a 'water meter' run backwards !

You never know the importance of having connections like and why the old school dirty 'rag' sorry tie network of 'Modern Schools' is paramount to one's success in life.

Yes, I'd tried to move the conversation on if anyone tried being incessant with me. Incessant would get tedious. Also I prefer talking about other people, not myself, which is what I mean by being interested in people.

I suspect some people might be a bit disappointed when they discover that people in state schools make "connections" too, then!

goodbyestranger - DSS1 hasn't got any City internships or job offers on anything other than merit - we don't know much about the processes he went through. However, when he was younger he did several internships that he got through connections. Those are the sort of internships that teach you what the workplace is like rather than act as some sort of extended interview. And when DSS1 was researching the different industries he might consider he spent many hours talking to friends working in those industries about both their own industries and their perception of other, related industries. That's how he built up a picture of what was out there and what he wanted to try out and he is very clear that, when going through the recruitment process, being knowledgeable about different sectors is a key success factor.

bert people who are good at making connections will do so anywhere.

It's just that certain environments are more easy than others.

There are some mumsnetters whose lives I would love to try for a day or two. Bobo's chic Parisian one, with all the sophisticated elegant people and intelligent conversation and high flying friends is one. I might have to scrub off the mud/icing sugar (depending on the time of day) first, though........

It's correct to say that Nepotism is fading somewhat - But private school connections will always exist. This is mainly mid to major
Public schools and not So much minor public schools. In my social
Circle this explodes at university and then again after university as university friends introduce one another to different university friends in London.

Connections help with getting your child work experience, job interviews, jobs.

No it's not that fair. But neither is it fair that You went on holiday to a lovely spot in Brittany while there are people in the UK that can't go on holiday. Or that you bought a second hand VW polo and someone can't afford a car.

It's not fair but if I will teach my privileged child to be kind and respectful to all walks of life then I feel more justified in the unfairness of it all.

If I don't spend my money it will just go to the government. I've
Worked bloody hard for it and my children will work bloody hard and will have a life contributing to the tax system. Additionally my child at a private school frees up a place in the local state school
That I have already paid for in taxes.

OP:

I've heard similar stories to yours from more than one person. A parent lives near good state schools, has no obvious reason to go private, but "I've done the sums, we COULD afford it if we tried, and I went to a private school myself so it seems normal to go to a private school. Aren't I short-changing my kids if I don't pass on to them the private education that I had? I feel a bit guilty, thinking about it."

I think it's normal and natural to feel that way.

But.... a generation ago, middle class parents could send their kids to private schools without any hideous financial deprivation. Since then, it is a different world. The fees have gone up and up and up in real terms, and they will continue going up over the many years until your third child is finally out of school (and then you've got three sets of uni fees to pay). Have you factored in all the cost increases that will inevitably happen over those years?

Meanwhile, most other professional parents have given up on the idea of private school too, meaning that the state school system is now full of parents with great careers (plenty of "connections" there...) who take their kids' education seriously. As someone else said, look at the top 20% achievers at your local state school and then compare it to the private schools. Is there much of a difference?

I am not going to deny that private schools are on average somewhat more academic and push the kids a bit harder--smaller class sizes and better behavior too, in most cases. They also tend to have nicer sports and music facilities. But there are almost certainly cheaper ways to plug the gap. Have an educational environment at home, do educational things at weekends, pay for good extra curricular and holiday clubs/camps, invest in tutoring as and when needed. The amount of "extra individual attention" that a child gets in a class of 20 as opposed to a class of 30 is not much. If I want my child to get individual one-on-one attention, I think it make a lot more sense to pay for targeted individual tutoring here and there in particular subjects over the years.

At the end of the day, your kids may thank you a lot more if you have some money set aside to give them for a deposit for a property, considering the state of the housing market in the UK.

I'm absolutely not snarking on the idea of private education: it really does makes sense for some people. If your child has special needs, they may benefit from a particular type of school; some children have specific talents that may make a specialist school worthwhile; some people are tied to areas where the state schools are really poor; some people just have money to burn and appreciate the "reassurance" of knowing that their child's school is unlikely to fall below a certain standard; some couples both have high-powered careers and want a school that provides schooling, homework supervision, tutoring, extracurriculars within a wrap-around package, because they don't have time to supervise their child's education and homework and cart them around to ballet and swimming. Horses for course.

For most middle-class familiesesp if one partner only works part-time and there are three kids and the local state schools are goodit is almost certainly not worth it.