why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

Thanks, I think

I was a Technical Director for a publishing company prior to having my ds (now 3). I travelled alot and worked very long hours and weekends.
I am ashamed to admit now that there were times, when perhaps I was just leaving for work or driving down the road, that I would see a woman pushing a pram and think to myself "god, I could do with a bit of that. nice restful days"
I worked until I was 39wks pregnant and was going to go back after 6 months but never did.
I am now a sahm to my son and I sometimes wish I could go back to work for a rest.

The one thing I've noticed since having ds is that women seem to be fair game for everyone to have a go at. They're having babies too old/too young/the wrong way, they're giving children the wrong role model by staying at home/going to work etc etc etc
Why do we then have a go at each other about these things?

If you want to stay at home and it's possible then good for you. If you want to or have to go outside the home to work then good for you.
It's all about choice surely. If you're doing the best you can do for your children then, really, good for you.

Calm down Crunchie - don't really know why you've got so upset. Did you miss my earlier post where I said I am absolutely not criticising SAHNM and as for not liking them -how bizarre. I said I had some concerns about long-term SAHMs when their kids are at school and I think many of them would share these too (what they would cope after the kids have flown the nest? Isolation, obesity, Pensions etc). I don't really see anything offensive about that and my concerns and these are legitimate issues for discussion.

And what a lot of assumptions you make. For example, that I do nothing to care for others. Err - I'm a teacher or doesn't that count? and I am a SAHM for 2 days a week. And I've done lots of volunteering in my life and my dp teaches kids with EBD. Oh, and I pay my taxes and have my pension sorted.

Queenofquotes, it wasn't my mum that taught me to use the washing machine it was dad. And are you honestly telling me people need to be taught how to use a mop?? Should we offer a GCSE in it? How long do you think it would take to teach and who would be qualified to lead the course?

at a 4 & 2 year old being able to put a wash on and hang out etc. I must be going wrong somwhere

Very interesting thread, this. I don't think the reason some men don't do much housework etc. is always because they don't know how to. My dh was taught by his mum how to do lots of this stuff, including ironing. But he has absolutely no interest in it.When I first met him, he lived on his own. He did do washing and ironing - when he had run out of clothes to wear. He did do cleaning - only when he was expecting visitors. He did do gardening - once a year when the garden had turned into a wilderness.

When he moved in with me, he did try to be a bit tidier (his house was always a mess), but I still ended up doing all the housework, gardening etc.At this point we were both working full time. In the end I got fed up, and reduced my hours at work, because I felt I was always running round trying to do everything.

I did try asking him to help, but he would always keep putting it off. I guess we just have very different attitudes to this sort of thing. Mine is that I like to get all the chores done first, then have time to relax/enjoy myself. His is that he likes to do what he wants first, and only do the chores if he gets round to it. At the end of the day, I don't like living in a house that is a tip, but it doesn't really bother dh. It's not that he expects me to do evrything, to him its just not necessary to keep the place clean and tidy.

Since we had ds, I have been a SAHM. Dh does help a bit with the childcare in the evenings and weekends, but still doesn't help out with housework, gardening etc. Not because he can't do it (and if he ever does help, he does a reasonable job)but because its just not a priority to him. And if I kept asking him to do it, he would get really fed up, and that would be harder to live with than doing the housework, shopping,cooking,washing, etc myself.

And are you honestly telling me people need to be taught how to use a mop??

You're a teacher - and you don't realise how much we have to learn about housekeeping?? What do you put in the bucket with the water?

If it were as simple as there were be virtually no untidy houses as people would automatically "know" how to keep them clean.........

Do you pass on your ideas that it is a lowly occupation to stay at home and care for your family to your students?

You are lucky BAWC you are a teacher, so holidays are sorted.

I am cross at you because you make assumptions like
"Isolation and obesity are real problems for many long-term SAHMs."
"
Perhaps Mr Ramsay's kids will care. And Mrs Ramsay if Mr Ramsay left her after 20 yrs of home-making. And Mr Ramsay's sons' wives since they will have learned strict gender roles and will think they don't have to change their own kids' nappies (we usually repeat much of our parents' parenting styles). And the tax-payer since they will have to fund Mrs Ramsay's pension and medical care when she is in her old-age. And I care because loads of men (and women) still think all women should be indoors cooking, cleaning and looking after kids which leads to sexism and a real lack of aspiration among many young women (who give up potentially exciting, valuable and important academic careers and later vocations) because they think they should or want to do what their mums did. "

BTW My mim was a SAHM - Have I followed her example??? I am the main breadwinner, so I don't think so.

"I play at being a SAHM for 2 days a wk" - let's be patronising here
"when kids are growing up I think it may cause problems for everyone (esp the mums themselves) if they're full-time SAHMs and if it's long term for the reasons I've mentioned (money, pension, independence, obesity, isolation, depression, feeling a lack of self-worth, messages to kids)." SAHM have a lack of self worth

Oh yes and this bit too
"you might hate me for this one but there really isn't a huge amount of knowledge or skill involved in cleaning, laundering, shopping and tidying although there certainly is in child-care and I would accept that there could be in cooking depending on how you do it"

You also made comments on another thread about the worthlessness of SAHM and how society thinks they are not as good as others.

I maintain, you are full of C**P and if you were such a great supporter of women and cared, really cared about their wellbeing, you would look at ways that society could support people in WHATEVER they choose to do, work or not work??? You would not spout about how SAHM are fat and useless and miserable. Not everyone wants to work, plenty are quite content. I may have differences of opinions here on MN, but I would always try to be supportive of anothers life choices, as I don't kknow the whole picture. As I said until you have walsked in someones shoes, you are not in a position to criticise.

Perhaps you should ask yourselves why you're getting so defensive. I NEVER CRITICISED SAHMs. And as for the stuff about a cleaner I did say 'perhaps' and if if a woman can afford not to work for 10 yrs plus then yes, I think that same family could afford a cleaner for an hour a week if she did start to work (because anything she earned would be more than the family had before). I actually earn £1100 a month of which £700 goes in childcare. You'll work out that doesn't leave me with a vast amount after the car and phone etc but I do pay a man to do the ironing once in a while so I can spend more time with my kids and on my marking. That's my choice and it may not be yours. I never said it had to be.

You'll realize after seeing my salary compared to childcare that I don't work for the money, I do it cos I love it and I want to keep my job after my kids are in school and I want to retire with a pension and I want my kids to have a working mum as a role model. Those are MY CHOICES they are not criticisms of anyone elses.

You have got to be joking about what to put in the bucket of water queenofquotes!!!!

I never said I had a perfect life. It's not easy but I have a supportive dp who does his fair share (I would have found it v. difficult to cope otherwise) and I think I've got the right balance for ME and MY family. MY kids seem to be happy and are doing well at nursery. You're absolutely right that school is going to bring a new set of challenges but I've already broken up and have my kids for 2 of the 6 wks holiday on my own (dp will have them for 2 weeks in Sept as I go back to work in mid-Aug) as I have done before. So I think I'll cope. And on INSET days my dds will come to work with me as they have before. Thanks for your concern though (all legitimate issues to raise).

You have got to be joking about what to put in the bucket of water queenofquotes

No - I'm not.

You pay £700 childcare out of £1100 wages? How much does your DH pay?

This idea that domestic labour doesn't take skill. Oh yes it does. My house is almost always a tip, because although I have all the systems going, flylady, organised stepford wife, fifties valium-housewife, etc., I am crap at it. Yesterday my mother came round and within 3 hours, the whole house was in total order. That's because she has a skill I don't have - I cannot get the house in that kind of order without having a week of the children being away to do it. But she can do it in 3 hours. That's the definition of a skill.

If I want to put up a shelf, I could probably do it, but it would take me 5 hours and would then fall down, in all probability. Whereas a friend of mine could do it in 20 minutes. And it would stay up. Her skill is recognised, because it's one we generally associate with men, and often expect to have to pay for. But for some reason, my mum's skill isn't.

Wonder why?

Please note the words 'perhaps', 'may' and 'usually' Crunchie. These means I believe these things are 'perhaps', 'usually' and 'may' be the case. I am quite aware that there are exceptions.

BTW my 7 year old managed to slosh water all over the floor on Sunday when I got her cleaning floors. I didn't give her instructions as apparently you don't have to

Oh should I perhaps of told her to wring the mop out first???? Surely she is older than a toddler she would have KNOWN instinctively

BAWC-do you sell pensions?

Well said, Caligula. Common sense.

I am cross at you because you make assumptions like
"Isolation and obesity are real problems for many long-term SAHMs."

Er, these are not assumptions these are real problems for many long-term SAHMs as are getting back into the work force, coping with kids flying the nest, financial security etc. I'm not being offensive Crunchie I'm just stating facts. Please not the word many not all. I'm sure many SAHMs have a very fulfilling life from birth to death and never regret their choices. That's great. I honestly think so. So there's really no reason to be cross.

If it works for someone, then fine.

But that kind of setup wouldn't work for me.

Nor does the whole idea that a man taking care of a child he brought into the world is 'babysitting' or nappy changing is somehow all my job b/c I've got a vagina.

No, I think not.

Social isolation and obesity are rapidly growing problems for most groups in the modern West, not to mention stress exhaustion, depression and heart disease. Being a SAHM is more inurious to the average woman's health than being a City lawyer, or an A&E nurse, or an inner city teacher, is it?

Don't make me laugh.

Don't sell pensions but try to remind women I know to get one because I've seen what happens when they don't and many women leave financial decisions to their husbands (again, I said 'many'). Not fun. Also seen women left by their husbands after being SAHMs with no financial security. Not fun. If all you mumsnetter long-term SAHMs are financially and emotionally secure etc etc then there's really no reason to get so upset is there?

Thanks Dino. That's really not what I said is it Greensleeves?

I think bawc is getting a hard time because her tone suggests that the way to ensure that SAHM's don't end up being shafted by divorce and pensions, is to stop being SAHM's.

Whereas a feminist position (IMO) would be to ensure that the work women does is valued properly, so that being a SAHM doesn't lead to the automatic shafting a patriarchal society would give it.

Hear hear.