why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

'it is demeaning and you are worthless if you are a SAHM.' Your words not mine Crunchie. This is not how I feel about SAHMs. Is it how you feel?

As for jealousy, I have had the option of being a SAHM on maternity leave x 2 and if I wanted to do it again I could. Like I said earlier, at the moment I'm not working for the money. Although I loved my maternity leaves I also missed my colleagues and students and the feeling of having really achieved something everyday and hated being dependent on dp for money (towards the end when I ran out of dosh) had very mixed feelings about going back (really looked forward to working but dreaded leaving dds). That's just my experience. As I said, if you like being a SAHM and it works for you then I'm happy for you.

but you're not though BAWC are you? you're deeply worried about crunchie's (or other SAHMs') pension, as you're mentioned several times.

Seems that you dread the insecurity of losing your independence as you perceive it.

Bawc likes to blind people with long, long, long threads and quote endless facts and paragraphs to them don't you cat?? Are you causing trouble again??!
Take her with a pinch of salt She means no harm.

poppyflower, that's just spiteful and ill-mannered. If you want to pursue a vendetta, do it privately.

I do like to be independent. Dp and I have always had separate bank accounts. We used to share the mortgage and bills but now we have children I pay child-care and some bills he pays mortgage and various other bills. It works out that we pay for the outgoings we have in common roughly in proportion to our income iyswim. I have never asked dp for money for something that is just for me (like clothes) and I would hate to be totally financially dependent on anyone or on benefits (hence we have life assurance and critical illness etc too) but that's just me. I am in no way criticising any one else's lifestyle.

If you've got your pensions sorted, Tutters, and co then that's great, if you haven't then you should be far more worried about it than I am. I'm not going to lose sleep over other people's pensions I just think it's something people and particularly women and particularly sahms should plan for. Tbh I find it hard to see why some of you would find that offensive. If you find it funny then laugh away and I genuinely hope you're still laughing about it when you're 65.

My mum (also a teacher) took quite a few years out to have kids, then worked part-time and was badly advised about her pension so is now working till she's 65 when she doesn't want to be and will have to watch every penny instead of enjoying her retirement and she's in a better position than a lot of women.

I've been a bit taken aback by a lot of your reactions tbh. As far as I can see I haven't said anything critical or even particularly controversial and my intention on joining this thread was initially just to respond to the op by saying I felt house-work should be a shared responsibility unless you are a sahm with children who are school-aged. If you've been upset by my comments I think that may because there are some insecurities and raw nerves out there which have nothing to do with me.

Don't be silly. She knows what I'm saying.

Wondered when you'd pop up here, Poppy

The thing is cat, I did enjoy our chat the other day and you do have alot of well considered and valid points to make. I have no doubt that you speak with genuine passion about your ideas and concerns. I did find, however, and I'm only guessing that some people here might feel a similar way, is that your tone can be somewhat ovrebearing and supercilious. A bit like a school teacher waving a stick infront of an assembly. It is not much WAHT you are saying but HOW you are saying it. And btw , I'm not having a go at you.

bad typos today, extra tired me

Tutter I have a pension, I work full time.

BAWC You did say on this thread
'you might hate me for this one but there really isn't a huge amount of knowledge or skill involved in cleaning, laundering, shopping and tidying'

You also said 'I play at being a SAHM for 2 days a wk'

Again you said
'And there's that recent research which suggests women who do (paid) work are healthier. Isolation and obesity are real problems for many long-term SAHMs. ' - which suggests you think they are possibly fat.

But for me this
'And the tax-payer since they will have to fund Mrs Ramsay's pension and medical care when she is in her old-age. And I care because loads of men (and women) still think all women should be indoors cooking, cleaning and looking after kids which leads to sexism and a real lack of aspiration among many young women (who give up potentially exciting, valuable and important academic careers and later vocations) because they think they should or want to do what their mums did. ' Which basically suggests to me that she is hacked off because tax-payers LIKE HER are going to have to pay for the women who don't work. And that women will be giving up 'exciting, valuable, and important careers' This language is used about work, not that women will give up the most important time of their lives with their kids. And that this time can be more rewarding than any 'exciting/important' career.

I agree you didn't use the words worthless and demeaning, but you implied them in your every post.

I do all the housework laundry etc don't do the garden (have a gardner for that) and that is the roll i took on when i gave up work - dh is more than happy to help around the hse but i'd much rather the time he's at home we enjoy spending as famiy doing things - it only takes an hr a day to keep on top of thing -

Nope, sorry, I still don't get the 'worthless and demeaning' implication. That's your slightly warped interpretation.

I stand by the lack of knowledge and skills needed for cleaning because I've never met anyone who lacks either (if they choose not to use them for this function then that's their choice) but I really find this whole mystifying of cleaning quite mystifying.

poppyflower you are right, it may not be the words used, but what was implied by them.

As I will say again I am not a SAHM, In an ideal world I would be, therefore your posts have struck a nerve with me as I think that you have implied somehow that staying at home with your kids is less interesting and less valuable to society. It maybe less interesting, but I see it has as valid contribution to society as any great 'academic' career.

Crunchie, for the zillionth time I have said that staying at home WITH YOUR KIDS is skilled, valuable and important work but if your kids are at school that really doesn't apply. If your work doesn't allow you to work school hours then that is a problem which it shouldn't be as I've said earlier.

If you've got your pensions sorted, Tutters, and co then that's great, if you haven't then you should be far more worried about it than I am.

Well I haven't and TBH I'm not bothered - I've got no intentions of still being in the UK when I'm old enough to retire

it is just a tad naive to think that employers will find it straightforward to adapt to employees working 9:00-2:30 (or shorter hours depending on commutes) only in term time. yes, some companies would be able to manage and work around it, but not all. it's very easy to blame employers but they have to survive and make money too.

but you are still saying if your kids are at school you should work. That is my point. WHY

(btw it's Tutter, in the singular)

and yes, i will be very well provided for in my old age, ta very much [irritatingly slightly smug smile]

'Well I haven't and TBH I'm not bothered - I've got no intentions of still being in the UK when I'm old enough to retire' Well, hope you aren't going to be in the UK with taxpayers funding your retirement because that's exactly the issue I'm talking about.

To clarify, I'm quite happy to pay my taxes to supplement the pensions of those people who've stayed at home to look after their kids, in fact, I would pay more taxes to help pay those women to stay at home with their kids if that's what they wanted to do. I'm not so happy to supplement the pensions of women who have stayed at home while their kids are at school (where I am the one looking after them by the way) while they clean their houses (because that's what some of you have told me that some of you 'like doing') and have 'lunch with their girly friends' (because that's what some of you have told me you do do). Don't really see how this is contributing to the greater good.

But, before you start if you have other reasons why you need to be at home when the kids have gone to school like kids with sn or parents to care for or whatever then, of course, that's different. And if you and your dps' employers will not accommodate family friendly hours and you have no access to quality child-care and your kids aren't old enough to look after themselves then obviously that's their fault and/or the Govt's fault and not yours.

I can't see many cases where you're helping your kids by being at home during the hours when they're at school anyway. Unless they also are really hung up on exactly how and how many times the floor has been mopped and I'm beginning to think that actually there's more to this cleaning lark than I realized because I really did just think you got a mop and some floor cleaner and kind of wiped the floor with it likewise with ironing you just kind of heated it to the required temp and then sort of ironed your garment until it didn't have creases anymore or am i just completely missing out on something that no one has ever told me?? I mean how hard can it be really??

oh great - someone else that doesn't bother to read posts.........I WORK! So I'm bloody well PAYING my taxes (not to mention DH paying ridiculously large amounts if he gets a big bonus month).

I work and at the moment I would NOT do all of the housework or childcare.

If I were a SAHM I would do most of the housework as I think that is fair. When I was at uni & on my holidays for 3 months at a time I didn't see how it was far too much work to look after LO & do the chores? I still had plenty of time to do other "me" activities.

Mind you I would want OH to help out with childcare when he got home & housework at weekends so I could have time off. However we enjoy looking after LO so it doesn't really feel like a job (although I'm not saying that is isn't).

What I really don't get is working mums, in fact any working women, who work and then do EVERYTHING in terms of chores when they get home. Why?!?!

oh - and I have a pre-schooler............

cat why do you insist on ' upping the ante' all the time. You say "That's your slightly warped interpretation." You know jolly well, being an English teacher , that using that turn of phrase is not pleasant. I am sure you could have chosen many others that would have not have had such an insulting tone.
I did think that it was just me initially, but watching you on this thread I realise that this is how you speak to people who you feel have 'crossed' you in some way.
You are an educated woman and I fail to understand why you use certain , deliberately chosen turns of phrase, designed to aggrevate and then berate the person you've sent it too when they are angry with you.

Also I'm interested that you chose to go back to work to get a sense of acheivement ( your words). Did you not feel enough of a sense of s=acheivement staying at home with your children?

I think if both parents are working full time in demanding jobs, over many years, it is difficult to hold a family together without lots of stress.

The dentists appointments, the time off to care for sick children, the need to attend sports days, the regular evening grind - homework, nutritious supper, quality time, baths, reading, ferrying to and from dance, music and sports clubs after school - all the stuff a 'good parent' is meant to do, not just one day but every day. It wears you out. If both you and your partner are working hard and full time, it takes the joy out of it. These duties do not stop when your child reaches school age - if anything they increase.

I have been the main full time breadwinner for many of the years dh and I have been married, at other times dh and I have taken it in turns to look after the children and not work.Both of us working is possible, but it is so much more stressful.