why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

No, I think KW is genuine, I don't think she could have posted so much w/o mentioning god if it was important to her.

That's interesting floating. No I'm not quite that extreme. But hey, each to their own!

Wasn't around then either

Who looked after Mr K before Kittywits was around and vice versa?

I looked after myself and he looked after himself of course

Of course! But I could be forgiven for wondering how you both coped before you found each other.

I think that any division of labour where one person is unhappy (for whatever reason) is surely wrong, or at least a bit sad. I'm sure I read somewhere, several hours ago, that Mr KW didn't actually enjoy his work. I also think I read that it is a mutual decision to carry on with it, for a variety of reasons, but one of the things about a relationship of equals is that it should be possible to vary roles over time. My dh and I have worked things out in a variety of ways, including me being SAHM, and him being SAHD. He enjoyed being at home far more than I did. I didn't notice his charisma (and I think that's what KW is really talking about) diminishing at that time, nor would I describe him as wanting to be a woman. He wanted to be a hands on parent, and I applaud him for wanting to do that and doing something about it (although yes, I felt somewhat putapon too, as only one of us could do this, and sometimes it seemed a nice idea not to have to go to work). He is more houseproud (in general) than me, and not averse to cleaning, washing etc. This is because he has that tidy gene, and I don't. Does this make him feminine and me masculine, well I don't think so because it seems to me looking at my children that there is much more to gender than a preference for housework. Going along those lines there would be incredibly few women, as most people do housework because it needs to be done, not because they particularly want to. Thinking about the primitive society thing, I really don't think that I am alone in thinking how incredibly lucky I am to have been born into a time and a society that values me as an individual and give me choice?

we were fully functioning apart Beatie and now we're together we complement each other.We have been able to reduce and in some cases cut out those areas where the other person functions more effectively or is just plain better. Some roles cross like childrearing, others we split.

nooka, my dp is unhappy working, he'd love NOT to work fuul stop, so would an awful lot of people I know. He likes his role within the family apart from that he would like more leisure time to spend with the kids. That's not different to an awful lot of fathers out there. There are those who don't come home until after their kids are in bed every night. I'm sure they are unhappy with things too, but it's a job and the money is needed by the family.

Well yes, I am aware that most families need money! I guess I'm just saying that if a family has the potential to have two earners then it doesn't all rest on one person's shoulders. When my dh decided that his job was destroying him he was able to quit because I work, so all the economic burden was not on him (in fact I earn more). I think that getting a reasonable work life balance is incredibly important - to me more important than earning a lot of money. That said, for me a good work life balance entails me working full time, but in a job that allows me to work flexibly and spend time with the children. I have watched people with very high income and very high stress burn out, and unless early retirement is very early, I would hate the idea of spending half of my life doing something I hated, however happy that made my partner, or comfortable my family life.

Thinking about it, in the gemmitygem household we do divide some tasks, based on who doesn't mind doing it as much, for example DH really really hates putting duvet covers on, and I really hate tidying the living room: (ok we have a cleaner so the main cleaning things are covered)

Me: more cooking cos get home from work earlier than him, changing the sheets, remembering basics like milk, loo roll, remembering when his parents/brothers' birthdays are etc.

Him: ironing, driving (I can't), carrying heavy shopping, putting in lightbulbs, drilling holes in walls, taking bin out, tidying away and labelling stuff, getting dead pigeon out of the air vent!

Both: mending things (I'll jerry-rig it, he'll spend hours doing it perfectly), laundry, washing up, discussing things with the landlady (we both hate that!), financial affairs, tidyups if someone comes round, cooking if someone comes round,

he will be doing half the babycare though, come October!

honeydew this was your thread, are you stilll reading? Have any of your views been changed or clarified after reading this.

I have enjoyed the debate and found it interesting that on the arrival of a certain poster, everyone else suddenly became more united. I like that. Reading everyone's eloquently written points has helped to clarify a lot of ideas in my mind and I thank everyone for that.

The current set-up between my DH and I works well and I have never felt insecure about that. DH loves his job and is also happy to enable me to be at home with our Pre-schooler and baby. However, if my earning potential were more, I know he'd love (or thinks he would love ) a stint at home as a SAHD. So, I realise I ought to be more mindful of the fact that he currently has the earning power for the family on his shoulders and I'll make sure he knows that is subject to change should it ever make him unhappy.

Like others have mentioned, I see our roles evolving and changing with time. I'm currently studying for a second career so perhaps when the children are in school I'll go all guns blazing into that and DH can relinquish some of the responsibility from his job and be the one available to pick the children up from school.

It's really too early to be up. The children think it's fun to wake up at 5:30am these days. I don't.

Yeah, it's clarified things for me too. I realise how happy I am with my life and how, at the moment, I wouldn't change it. It's bl**dy hot already.

Beatie: btw does it give you security to think that you and everyone else on this thread are 'united' in your ideas as you put it?
Would you feel uncomfortable having ideas that were not the accepted norm? It appears important for you to very much be part of a group. Perhaps you find your ideas are vindicated if others also feel the same way. Personally I can do that all by myself!

I too have learned things or this thread has confirmed things I had suspected . I realize I am very lucky to have a man who doesn't see paid or domestic work or child-care in gendered terms and just gets on with all three and that this is fairly unusual. Also very lucky that both of us enjoy both our paid work and child-care (mostly) and that this also is not necessarily typical. Teaching is especially easy to enjoy when you've got a 6 week holiday but both of us will be working on and off during that time and September when I go back to work 5 days but still part-time will be a nightmare. I have also learned that we probably do less housework than most people and maybe should do more... Which will be easier to do once we all stop posting on this thread Off on holiday on Saturday for a week without the Internet so you'll have a break from me then.

kittywits I have jsut about caught up with this again! Very relieved to hear that you had Mr KW don't see downsizing as failure and that you will be reviewing your lifestyle choices once your youngest is at school.

One thought about all this business with you saying many of your male friends are different - in your words(I think) emasculated and resent now they are married and have children and feel obligated to share the housework tasts.

I had lots of carefree (wild!) male friends in my twenties and early thirties. Like me they have settled down with a partner and most have children and yes, they have changed. Yes, they are more careworn and tired. Even the ones who have not got children are like this. Bit of a generalisation I know.

I have always this is all about getting older, not about them getting feminised or henpecked. I wonder if it's possible you are labeling this change ( maturity? boringness? whatever you want to call it) as emasculation while I label it as the effects of time?

My wildest female friends have also calmed down, too. My friend's lives are busy on the whole, they don't have the same anount to time or energy to devote to friendships outside their family.

I know many more women than men who are resentful of having to do housework (because they feel or do have to do more of it than men regardless of whether they are WOHM or SAHM. There are times when I feel tired all the time and just fed up either because of work or kids or housework or car going wrong. Never regret my decisions though and never resent my kids though do wish I had more time and they weren't such hard work. You're right TIgermoth it's just about getting older and often dealing with more and more responsibilities.

Perhaps you're right Tigermoth. Perhaps I am just wistfully remember those days when all I had to worry about was how to cure my hangover. Usually with another drink!
There what nice summing ups to such an interesting discussion.