why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

They aren't content, they just know it won't get bloody done unless they do it. and if they force DH/DP to do it, it wont get done properly!!!!!Bloody Men!

I'm not suggesting or forcing anyone to do anything, Peachy, just quoting the research.

And the point about passing stuff on to your kids is not about knowledge (you might hate me for this one but there really isn't a huge amount of knowledge or skill involved in cleaning, laundering, shopping and tidying although there certainly is in child-care and I would accept that there could be in cooking depending on how you do it) it's about the expectations. How your parents live their life is the single most important factor in how you live yours and affects everything you do from whether you go to university to how you bring up your kids. So, yes, you can teach your man/kids how to change a nappy in seconds but as some of you have pointed out it takes a lot more to get them to do this on a regular basis and many women including some here are suffering from the legacy left to men by their parents. My dad was completely domesticated and a brilliant hands-on dad so I was naturally attracted to a man who did his fair share (and have honestly only just realized that most men still don't). Couldn't have got it together with any other type TBH.

I completely understand why SAHMs or dads stay at home while kids are pre-school and think it's commendable and probably important for the whole family and perhaps society (I play at being a SAHM for 2 days a wk and work for 3) but when kids are growing up I think it may cause problems for everyone (esp the mums themselves) if they're full-time SAHMs and if it's long term for the reasons I've mentioned (money, pension, independence, obesity, isolation, depression, feeling a lack of self-worth, messages to kids). I've got a real thing about pensions because so many women are suffering or vulnerable in their old age because they've been SAHMs.

If the PM's wife doesn't see house-keeping, being a wife and mother of 4 as a full-time job then I just find it hard to see how anyone else does. Yes, I know she has help but we all could and should from our partners and children. Obviously it's different for single mums and mums of children with SN etc etc.

Not criticising anyone who chooses to be a SAHM just a bit concerned for them.

I understand your point, but neither my DH or I had a clue about housework. His Mum did it all (and wanted to- OCD), My mum did it all coz we w ere lazy buggers. Ther's a lot more to learnbing it from scratch at 20+ than you'd think LOL! (Plus, especially for men, I'd include things like sensible shoppinga nd nutrition in that). DH is now the most useful chap around the house I know.

And you can change your life from your parents- mine never did FE / HE either

you might hate me for this one but there really isn't a huge amount of knowledge or skill involved in cleaning, laundering, shopping and tidying

hmmmm - ok if you say so...............

I am happy to do all the housework, as I like it done my way, dh could'nt do it my way for love nor money, but I like him to help cook, put kids to bed etc.

Actually there is a small level of skill in vleaning and Laundry, but its not the skill that makes it hard, its physically hard, and damn near impossible to keep on top of it when children are racing around destroying everything you've done in double quick time.

So is child-minding not a full-time job? People who work in nurseries are not really working full-time? Looking after children is a job in itself. And they don't stop needing someone just because they reach school age. We have just supported our 15yo (now 16) through a very difficult 18m which if I had been in work would have been a headache to me or dh to have time off work to sort out and so adding to family stress, possibly making the situation worse.
Why is child-care only considered worth something if someone else is being paid to do it? If childcare was really seen as worthwhile perhaps sahm would not become non-persons to the state and things would be put in place for pensions etc. Women are vulnerable because sahm is not recognised by gov't as being valuable. Encouragement for parents to go out to work is available in the form of childcare benefits. The contribution made by parents who decide to bring up their own children isn't recognised.
I have been in paid employment before (professional job in IT) and if it was truly necessary I could again but as long as we have a roof over our heads and food on the table and each other then I prefer to use any skills I have raising and mentoring my part of the next generation, who hopefully will contribute well in whatever way they can to the future of their families and this country.
Dh's dad never changed a nappy but dh is more than happy to be involved in the care of our children. When we had children we soon realised that one of us staying home would make life easier for us all as a family. I preferred to stay home, dh preferred to go out to work. So that's what we did. As regards housework I have a lower tolerance for dust and dirt than dh. So I end up doing most of the housework. If he can get away with not doing something that he doesn't like (ironing, for instance)then he will. Same goes for me(eg car maintenance). Doesn't mean that he couldn't iron if he had to or that I couldn't sort the car out if I had to. We just prefer not to. This suits us for now. If the situation changed then we would have to rethink things.

This has been driving me mad for ages honeydew. More fool them I say. When I was a sahm I considered my job childcare, not slavery. The same applied when dh was a sahd.

Agree, it's physically hard, Waterfalls, and agree it can be impossible with small children running around. I'm talking about SAHMs with kids at school though. Queenofquotes, I must be missing something about house-work then but if my 4 and 2 year old can sort clothes, wash and hang them up and stack and unstack the dishwasher I'm thinking it can't be that skilled!!

You see, that's where you're all going wrong - you don't exploit your kids enough - and the beauty of it is that when they're tiny they think it's all a game. Dp has dd1 up a ladder stripping wallpaper and gardening too so no gender stereotyping in my house.

blackandwhitecat, you really don't like SAHM do you??

Your attitude on this and other threads about this subject has been shocking, it is plainly obvious that YOU see them as worthless human beings who will end up a drain on society. NOT that perhaps SAHM are one of THE most important factors in eductaing the next generation. You are very fond of quoting 'research' but does that 'research' also tell you that children brought up in the main by their mothers fare better at school. That children who have SAHM are generally better behaved etc.

I really think your attitude is totally and utterly c**p is is nasty against a lot of highly intellegent women who have decided 'for whatever reason' to be SAHM. There are people here on MN who were high powered career women, who gave this 'so called better way' up to bring up their kids. Why could this be?? Perhaps they thought that they alone would be better than shoving their kids into nursery, or at an older age having a latchkey kid. Or using rubbish after school/holiday playschemes. Perhaps these women should be applauded as they are the very foundationof things in this country. Those SAHM work harder than a lot of others I know - who do you think volenteers to read at the school with your kids? Who runs the School fayre? Who does loads and loads of 'CARING' for others. Not you I am sure.

BTW I am a working mum (I work FULL TIME) and I am appalled by the rubbish you have spouted.

blackandwhite - imagine you mother had never shown you how to wash the dishes, what to use to mop the floors, how to iron, how to use the washing machine, how to cook, how to use the dishwasher.

You seem to take for granted that people who leave home should automatically know how to run a house - well it doesn't happen!!!

My children help with lots of household chores - but I still need to go around after them and finish the jobs properly. If they had a chance to help me they'd probably be clueless when they left home!

I am so amazed that women still put up with doing all the chores in our so called 'liberated' 21st century! Being a career woman and then a SAHM I am astounded by just how much so called' modern' women I meet at playgroups will put with. The more women accept the role of general 'dogsbody' around the home, the more boys growing up will believe women should do all the housework. My DH's mum did everything for him. Consequently, he is sadly lacking in basic domestic skills required for life. I gave up work to look after my two young children, not my DH! If he was living alone or with friends, he would still have to cook a meal and do his washing after work anyway, so he should contribute at home! I too have had huge rows with my DH on how much he should help me at weekends and gradually he is changing. I hope I can teach my son to look after himself, be independent and cope with life on his own successfully. I do believe that women who do everything for the family without sharing the chores are teaching all concerned that a women can work and run a home singlehanded.It sends a poor message to the next generation of men and what they can expect from women in their adult relationships.

Absolutely agree with you about child-care Juule which is why I do v. little housework when I'm looking after the kids (we share it when dp is back from work). But when the kids are at school?

How much cleaning do you all do? I can't see a house needs more than 2-3 hrs a day (max) and if you share that around the family that's no more than an hour each. Surely everyone can fit that in before or after a day's work and more if necessary at the wkend?

If both dad and mum worked you could perhaps afford a cleaner or at least someone to do the ironing if it was getting unmanageable.

"I play at being a SAHM"

As a fulltime SAHM for the last 7 years I think B&Wcat has some valid points, but there are pro' and con's to both working and staying at home. I'm now at the point where I do feel the brain is going a bit mush like, so in September I'll do a couple of part time courses, while DS is in nursery and DD's at school. As for the potential of being left in later years with no career to fall back, I do occasionally think about this. my neighbours DH has recently left her aged 50 for a younger woman, she said that if it had happened when her children were younger she would have felt it was a life sentance. Couples divorce at anytime and i don't think I should go back to work just in case.

It was my choice not to go back to work when DD1 was born, I gave up a well paid interesting career to bring up my child. Now we have three, I feel I have even more reason not to return to work - it was not a child friendly job. I did not give up my job to clean and I don't want my LO's memories of their childhood to be me cleaning. Having said that it does have to be done and on one income we can't afford a cleaner - but the LO's help, DH helps at the weekend and I muddle through.

By the way, my parents divorced when I was little so I had very little experience of what men do around the home - but like someone else said earlier I couldn't be with someone who expected me to do it all.

Oh an you obviously have the perfect life, working 3 days a week etc, getting dd to strip wallpaper etc. All I can say is JUST YOU WAIT, your kids go to nursery at teh mo while you are working. Nursery is open 51 weeks a year. School terms are 39 weeks a year. Leaving 13 weeks of holidays. Do you get such long holidays?? And what about illness? Inset days? etc Oh of course you don't have to worry about those, your kids are 4 and 2.

I have never stressed so much about being a working mum as I do now my kids are at school. Do you know how much kids can cry becuase mummy has never picked them up??? It really breaks my heart.

So before you downgrade housework to be something a toddler could do, and think that all SAHM must be worthless, Take a good hard look around you.

honey - why do you assume that these women "Put up" with it? Yes some probably do - my other was one of them - as was DH's mum, but others relish life at home as a SAHM - some even enjoy the challenge of running a house and working.

FWIW - DH grew up in a very traditional household (well sort of - dad married and divorced 3 times) where the women did all the work - did it stop him being 'domesticated' - not at all! He's more domesticated than I am and my mum used to have me helping with everything!

and also the reverse of that. My 19yo ds didn't do much past the age of 10 (the novelty to help had worn off by then) apart from tidy his own things. When he left home last summer for uni we had one or two 'what do I do?' phone calls. He soon learned when he had to. He now does his own washing, cooking , cleaning etc no problem and he's a dab hand at the babysitting when home in hols. Although he would prefer not to babysit - too much of his own life going on now.

"if both dad and mum worked you could perhaps afford a cleaner"

PMSL - of course all families with 2 working parents live like that because they want to spend their money on "extras" don't they.................ok maybe not - perhaps some 2 working parent families live like that because they need to pay the bills.

BTW I am so obviously one of these downtrodden abused women you speak of. Since I still do more than DH of the housework!!! OH MY I SHOULD GET A DIVORCE!!

TBH as others have said I have a slightly lower pain threshold when it comes to dirt, so I crack and do stuff before he does. I do the washing in the main, as he has shrunk too much of my stuff, he does the lawn and cleaning windows. We both do stuff, my kids too, BUT I wish you would stop judging others when you have never walked in their shoes.

LOL at the idea that we can all somehow afford a cleaner and/or someone to do the ironing! I'd love to live on Planet Blackandwhitecat.

oh I must just add that it was my (brought up in a 'stereotypical household - and indeed very 'traditional culture/country) DH who sat for 3/4hr last night sewing the hem back on DS1's school shorts.............

Personally I wouldn't want a cleaner. It's not about money - I want to look after my children and their needs myself, I don't see why I should have to apologise for that. I'm not obese or isolated and I don't think that what I do all day wth my children is mindless or menial. Anyone who feels like that isn't doing it properly IMO.

Would it be OK if I said WOHMs were selfish, emotionally stunted, materialistic and shallow? No, it wouldn't - it would be insulting, two-dimensional, simplistic and totally uncalled-for, wouldn't it? Which is how I would describe your posts on this thread, bawc.

Gleensleeves, normally I really don't agree with your threads, you are far too worthy for me But well said

Well said Greensleeves.