G +T at secondary school - selection etc

[Piffle]

Gifted and Talented not Gin and Tonic.
Ds is in yr 7 grammar, had always been on G+T since starting school and for maths is on GCSE level which he loves
Thing is the G+T letters went out yesterdya to two other pupils
Now before anyone tells me I have my head so far up my arse/am pushy parent etc...
Ds did slip in literacy, this is a common failing yr 6 primary literacy strategy for gitsted children, it comes out as boredom and teachers here get complacents as the kids have already done the 11+ and the grmamar will boof them up a bit
TBH they have.
Now for maths CAT's (cognative abilties tests ) done late last year - age standardised
ds scored 99% (highest poss for feb born) for maths and 94% for English
he teachers have just told me that he has been left out because there are others who try harder.
To be fair ds finds it pretty easy and really enjoys it - he is diligent and does his work happily.
I am really pissed off, as I thought G+T should not exclude kids who do well because they just do
Do I need a reality check?

I "think" that the G & T programme is for the top 10% or some such figure of children in that particular school.

So it figures that most of the children at a secondary grammer school would have been in the G & T programmes of their respective primaries but they can't all be in the secondary programme.

hey take 2 students from each class
My ds is top at maths and 2nd at english
one of the boys who got the G+T place has a lesser average but is first at englsih but lower than ds by several points at maths
He got it because it was hard work which I'm very happy for him that he worked so hard but feel it is very unfair way to do it.
this is part of the early pick up of students of ability at entry level that go on for pre selection for prestige universities
DS is set on going to Oxbridge
I know he's only 11 but he is set....
I have another child with special educational needs so see balance honest

Not a secondary school teacher, and don't have children that old, but I find it hard to believe that a Y7 boy doing GCSE maths isn't in the top 10% even of a grammar school. G&T shouldn't be a reward for trying hard, it should be extra stimulation for very able children. Sometimes these are precisely the children who are not trying hard. If I were you I would feel the same way, Piffle.

Not sure this helps much.....

A friend of ds in yr 6 who was exceptionally clever and always doing gandt courses etc has now found that in yr 7 secondary there are a fair few very intelligent children and he has kind of lost his role a bit Do you think that there are just a lot more children in his class at that level?

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doesnt seem right. It should be your boy!!

snails pace thats what I thought
I have asked someone from the school to ring me back later to further explain it to me in a way I can exlain to ds.
He is really confused and has been made to feel like he has failed in some way which defeats the entire object...

And also the CATS which place the kids in the G+Tnationally and project GCSES scores (baffles me but hey what do I know) place ds on those results in the top 1% for maths and top 6% for English so I'm baffled... again!
DS did have 3-4 weeks off with his broken arm and did all of the homework with his right hand (he's left handed) and now says if thats not working hard and trying then he may as well ahev not put himself through it...
11 going on 35.....

What you may find, particularly if your son goes to a grammar, is that other children are also brilliant at maths - it is not that uncommon at a grammar, and particularly in boys. Giftedness in maths is a mindset, but giftedness in English is usually harder to achieve. English requires more subjective opinion, etc, so the school may have gone for those children who did really well in English because they couldn't differentiate in maths (generally in grammar, they are all good).

Grammar schools have a hard time choosing g and t kids, because they are all gifted and talented! My daughter goes to a grammar school, she was always top of the class at primary and everyone thought she was great. However, she had a big shock at grammar school, as she was no longer top of the class. It was a hard lesson for her, as she started to think she was thick, until she realised just how clever some children at the school are. I think you need to prepare your child and yourself for this, it is inevitable in a grammar school. Just relax and let him enjoy his time at school - you don't have to be the best at everything, just try to be happy. I don't mean this to sound patronising, but it is how I felt in year 7 too!

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Snailspace, I don't know Piffle (!), (or you), but in my experience, grammar schools have enrichment programmes built in to their lessons anyway, so there doesn't seem any need to worry about not being included in a g and t activity. Schools do base their selection on MidYis and Cat scores, that is the only objective method they can use. I am surprised if the school gave out a list of where a child falls in the class in terms of CAT scores (round here they are MidYis), I have never heard of that before. Sorry to upset the apple cart.

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wow grammar schools sound terrifying

Heart set on Oxbridge - at 11 - well - may be this isn't the forum for me - I have only just registered as I have a child waiting to hear the results of her 11+ and am worried about it, but clearly this is the forum for excessively pushy parents. I am truly shocked. I just want my children to enjoy school and their childhood, if they get into Cambridge/Oxford, all well and good, but my life doesn't depend on it. I know some children are tutored all the way through their grammar schools, but I had no idea that they were already being lined up for Oxford, etc, at such a young age.

Before I leave, a little tale. A friend of mine had such blind ambition for her son. He was to be a doctor. He was tutored and got into a prestigious medical school. However, at age 20, he decided that he was fed up with trying to please his parents, gave up the degree, and went travelling round India. His mother nearly had a stroke. He is now in his 30s, living abroad and having absolutely no contact with his mother. In fact, I know she has 3 grandchildren, but she has only seen one of them. Be careful when planning your child's life for them, remember that they need to play a part too. Bye . . .

nah enid it's my ds who is terrifying not the school
Just had a call here is the guts
Ds had 4 weeks off with broken arm in /Oct Nov
During this time the school was considering joining the G+T scheme for the first time, the initial recommendations were based on CATS and SATS alone it was the highest average
Now ds fell down on his SATS English (horrid to say fell down he get 87% ffs) so his average lowered
However as this was the first induction and they were unclear about about all the recommending criteria and being yr 7s who they hardly knew from Adam, they picked only 3 in total (2 in ds's class) from 4 yr 7 forms. Now they are more sure about criteria, she said that they were actualyl allowed to go purely on teacher recommendations, not tests results. So they are popping another few lads from yr 7 on the scheme in the next two months
She said my ds was recommended by his maths and english teachers, as well as by his top results and will be in the next few boys who get in.
It is also an ongoing thing I'm now off the check the NAGTY website for more info on what it will actually mean
Hopefully a live in dweeb who knows things that can answer his sodding maths questions cos heaven knows I'm lost....

Jennypog, he is lining himself up, it is not Piffle pushing.

Jenny that is a really terrible thing to say
HE HE HE has his heart set on Oxbridge
Me I'm a uni drop out, was single mother with him for 6 yrs
I am not pushy he has special needs
This always happens
I think I'm on the wrong forum for support sometimes.

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He may be better off in the long run just going with the flow rather than being singled out He sounds really smart and people like that will do well regardless.At 11 he should be having fun not worrying about oxbridge My ds is 11 and fairly intelligent did very well in his sats etc but he doesn't even know what Oxbridge is.Just be proud he is so intelligent

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Also worth noting I have a 3 yr old dd with special needs and who is due to be statemented shortly
She has all her special needs met extremely well, and always will - should my ds be any different?
Due to all the bullying my son has had throughout his life due to his non sporting academic senstive soul self, I would actualyl rather prefer that he was a kid who did not stand out in anyway, who could play footy really well and got invited to parties.
I'm not running his life, if it was me he'd be reading Shakespeare and Tolstoy not Little Books of Scientific Theorems
I am not sure why he wants to go to Oxbridge, all I know that is if he wants to go when it is time, that he has had every opportunity to excel as he will need it.
Hopefully he will go to Uni closer to home - I'd prefer that tbh....

Noddy he got it from watching University Challenge last year and from reading the Times
BAh

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