G +T at secondary school - selection etc

[Piffle]

Gifted and Talented not Gin and Tonic.
Ds is in yr 7 grammar, had always been on G+T since starting school and for maths is on GCSE level which he loves
Thing is the G+T letters went out yesterdya to two other pupils
Now before anyone tells me I have my head so far up my arse/am pushy parent etc...
Ds did slip in literacy, this is a common failing yr 6 primary literacy strategy for gitsted children, it comes out as boredom and teachers here get complacents as the kids have already done the 11+ and the grmamar will boof them up a bit
TBH they have.
Now for maths CAT's (cognative abilties tests ) done late last year - age standardised
ds scored 99% (highest poss for feb born) for maths and 94% for English
he teachers have just told me that he has been left out because there are others who try harder.
To be fair ds finds it pretty easy and really enjoys it - he is diligent and does his work happily.
I am really pissed off, as I thought G+T should not exclude kids who do well because they just do
Do I need a reality check?

thank you

Celia to put in a guide to CATS.. Oh BTW we are not allowed to tell you the result would open the floodgates to parents demanding their right to know. Which is why it is simply not mentioned.

Anyway strictly speaking parents are allowed to know...It is their right. BUT the results must NOT be given out to the pupils or given to the parents without a request.

Celia it is the Schools own policy that decides to keep a hat on CATS. Like I said the vast majority of schools do not inform parents that their child is taking this test. They certaintly do not give the scores out in evelopes. I have NEVER heard of this. Yet it is the "goverment" who rule that parents have a right to know...IF they request.

we CAT test results in year 6

ooooooooooooops we were given the results

We weren't given any CAT scores or results of any tests for my G&T ds, now yr 8, mentioned earlier in this thread. He's totally from another planet to your bright boys. When I found out there was a chess club at his school (he loves chess, plays all the time at home, beats everyone) and suggested he went he said no - he would be called a boff! You guys should be happy your kids enjoy their intelligence instead of trying to hide it to be cool with their peers. I asked him if he'd told his maths teacher he'd been to a NAGTY maths day at Bletchley. 'Uh no. Why?'

Just to add a bit more to this very interesting discussion, I have never been give a CAT score my either of my sons. The oldest is in his first year of grammar school. He has never, ever mentioned CAT tests.

It did give me pause for thought, roisin and mb when you talked about the wide ability range at the comp schools you work in. In attitude at least, my ds is miles away from your son, piffle, even if they both go to grammar schools.

ds is coping with the work as far as I can tell. He does have problems getting to lessons on time because he plays too much football and cricket. He is getting regular detentions for this, so it will have to stop. He does do his homework without too much fuss and does like the school overall, but he dreams about being a cricker or chef. He complains he is stuck in a class of goody goody geeks . I think the teachers did this on purpose as they have probably been told by his primary teacher how incredilby easily led he is.

I'd say he not the brightest of the bright there - he is definitely able but his focus is not primarily academic. He forbade me from going to the gifted and talented parents meeting, saying he would never live it down.

rafaella, just read your message and see you have a son with similar attitudes to mine The word 'boff' has crept into ds's vocabulary, too.

DS1 is not sporty, and does not have a musical bone in his body. When choosing a secondary school the most important thing for us is an ethos where it's "cool to be bright" - among the kids and among the staff. If he feels he has to hide the abilities he has, which happen to be solely academic, then what will happen to his self esteem?

He greatly admires the sporting prowess of his friends, and (atm - yr4) they greatly admire his academic abilities. Long may it continue!

Unfortunately my ds is at a boys comp and only streamed for maths so spends most of his time surrounded by a bunch of boys who don't want to learn - he loves it by the way, is very happy there. He does the bare minimum, if that, but is regarded as a model pupil by teachers, forever getting merits for his work!!! He has loads of friends and that's what's important to him - and football, of course. We have threatened to move him - an idle threat of course as we can't afford to - if he doesn't start working, but he's truly not bothered.

I think (hope) that at ds's school, they do have an ethos of 'its cool be bright'. As the school is academically selective, I assume it must have, but perhaps not....roisin, you've set me thinking.

I have to say that right now ds can be quite dismissive of classmates whom he considers swots. He has cooled his friendship with one of his best friends from primary because of this (mind you, the friend seems to have cooled towards my son as well so this is not one sided). I have invited the boy round, tried to keep the friendship going and told my son he must not pigeonhole people.

My ds has definitely picked up a message that it's cool to like sports and it's not cool to be ultra keen on school work. He does admire classmates who excel, but does not see himself as one of them or go out of his way to make friends with them.

He goes to a youth theatre group which he claims to enjoy. In the autumn, they did a play loosely based around Shakespearian texts. Ds did the 'all the world's a stage' speech. I watched him in rehearsal - afer he had worked on the text and had direction. He was IMO good, making the words come alive. I was impressed. But when it came to the first night, he was much more wooden, simply reciting the words. I asked him why and he said that's how everyone else acted it - he could have done it how the director had suggested, but he didn't want to stand out.

Forgot to say, I asked my son about CAT tests before he went to bed and he said no way had he taken any - ever. I must mean his SATS.

Its amazing isn't it Tigermoth! I find exactly this all the time. Boys seem to go through this stage where they are terrified of being seen as a "swot" or "bof". This usually lasts till Year 9 or 10 and in some it never changes.
What your son did at the concert was a classic example...He has a talent and he realised this after witnessing the other performances so like most young boys he "dumbed down " rather than stand out.
This is exactly why summer schools at NAGTY and Outreach activites can be so enriching. There is a definitly a "cool to be bright " moto .
So many times I get children who really don't want to attend. They are terrified thet are going to be surrounded by nerds for 2 weeks.
It is really NOT like that all and they end up loving it. They play football...basketball...have parties(all under supervision).I remember one boy who was very good at sports and also a very gifted mathematician, he was very reluctant to go to summer school. He was convinced he would champion sportsman at all the games so this spured him on to attend. After all he said..swots aren't good at sports. Boy was he surprised. .
It totally changed his outlook and his own misconceptions towards other gifted youngsters.

On another point Tigermoth...Your son will hsve done either a CAT test or MIDYIS early on in y7. His school have obviously done a very good job of hiding the fact. Like I said earlier a lot of schools don't even tell their pupils they are "doing a test".
If you are interested in his results ask the head..It is quite possible he qualified for NAGTY as it will be a few months yet before all the applicants are informed. (usually through a letter from the school).

Tigermoth, some interesting posts. You are quite right that there can be a 'not cool to the bright' ethos in school. TBH, I think it is a probelm in society as a whole. I can think of some rather nasty posts from somevery nice MNetter when other mum have discussed their very able children.

As a society we seem happy, estatic even, to discuss sporting or musical excellence (or financial) but when it comes to being bright people are swots or snobs of geeks.

ATM I am teaching as outstanding class. Interetingly all the very bright kids in it are seen as 'cool' by the rest of the year. I'm not quite sure why, they are very good looking (which seems to help), they are also very sporty and musical (also helps) and there are a lot of them......'safety in numbers'?

It may amuse you to know that we have placed a boy in this class who was exceptionaly disruptive in all his other classes. Not only does he now behave well in class, his grades have risen from E grades (in all his other subjects) to B grades in science.....peer pressure is an amazing thing. H knows there is no point in kicking off inthis class, all he would do was piss the other kids off!

I find this class a delight to teach. At the risk of blowing my own trumpet I was the brightest kid in the year, and had the shit kicked out of me for being 'clever'. With these kids I can delight in being clever, and get them to enjoy it too. 40 of this year are doing A level biology next year (twice the normal number). I can't wait! They will be a joy to work with.

Tinker99
At my sons grammar school, CAT results were sent out without being requested.
There were CAT3 Cat level D
WE were not told he was doing them, which I was pleased about as they had been through the stress of 11+ and SATS and also it was to avoid "coaching" if possible to get a true reflection of a pupils actualy abilities in order to stream the classes. We were told they would be streamed but not how they would assess.
My ds did get a lot of flak about being a boff and teachers pet in primary school, now at a (boys only) grammar it works to his advantage.
I'll have to see what happens wtih regard to NAGTY in April, as I said I only know what the school told me... Will report back of course!
Also consdiering raising the virtue of age standardising once in secondary school... making it impossible for older kids to achieve 100%...

MB, what a wonderful post. If ds and dd encounter just a few teachers in their progress through education who are like you, I will be ecstatic. (Ds' Year 1 teacher was pretty fab )

Tigermoth, I hope ds got a carpeting from his director, that's such a shame. Doesn't knowing that Jude Law trod those boards and was NEVER afraid to show off cut any ice with him
Your ds has a broad streak of showman in him, he should let it shine. I am honestly sad that he felt like this - we had planks and stars in the making in our day, and our director never made the planks feel bad (roles for all and everyone enjoyed themselves) but he was tough on the teens who COULD act.

I think the problem of clever children deliberately dumbing down is enormous, and one of the reasons that the G&T scheme makes sense. It's really not good for kids to pretend to be something they're not - if they actually DO know things, and ARE interested, and CAN do things, they should feel free to say so. I bet there are plenty of mums on here who deliberately dumbed down in order to get on with other children at school, and suffered for it psychologically as well as educationally. I know I did. It's quite a strain pretending you don't know stuff, when you do.

I did too, to stop people bullying me.

Did my head in...especially because I also wanted to do well. But not too well.

IMHO the reason that G & T children do this

is the same reason that we as parents are not allowed by society and also on MN to be proud of our children

without been called pushy or boasting

Please email MN towers to ask for a separate topic, so that we don't have to hide anymore