G +T at secondary school - selection etc

[Piffle]

Gifted and Talented not Gin and Tonic.
Ds is in yr 7 grammar, had always been on G+T since starting school and for maths is on GCSE level which he loves
Thing is the G+T letters went out yesterdya to two other pupils
Now before anyone tells me I have my head so far up my arse/am pushy parent etc...
Ds did slip in literacy, this is a common failing yr 6 primary literacy strategy for gitsted children, it comes out as boredom and teachers here get complacents as the kids have already done the 11+ and the grmamar will boof them up a bit
TBH they have.
Now for maths CAT's (cognative abilties tests ) done late last year - age standardised
ds scored 99% (highest poss for feb born) for maths and 94% for English
he teachers have just told me that he has been left out because there are others who try harder.
To be fair ds finds it pretty easy and really enjoys it - he is diligent and does his work happily.
I am really pissed off, as I thought G+T should not exclude kids who do well because they just do
Do I need a reality check?

Re dedicated topic for G&T: not really in favour - not a defence against, and possibly more attractive to, carpers. And there might be that "so how do you deserve to be here" vibe that has spoilt other special issue threads from time to time. Personally, I'm quite happy meandering generally about in Education (and supporting people who're being found fault with).

And, piffle, I am very glad that things have resolved themselves the right way for your boy.

Well, I started off reading this thread, wondering what on earth was going on in schools, supplying gin and tonics in the classroom!

I'm now very glad that my two fantastic kids - who I wouldn't swap for all the world - are not budding Einsteins!

One quick point regarding the 'coolness' of being bright. DS (14 tomorrow!) started his new school last September, with a boy from his old school who was awarded a scholarship - and was regarded by my son and the 'cool' gang as a bit of a swot.
Ds was talking thru' his report with me a couple of months ago - he is in the middle of the top set - and was saying how amazing this boy's work is, and how good his grades are. I feel that appreciation of other's talents - whatever they are - is something that hopefully comes with maturity, so hopefully for the G & T kids, life will get easier with their peers, as they move through school.

I've been lurking on this today and read lots of interesting points of view. I am glad mumsnet can have both a piffle and a tinker99. You both have so much to say on this subject - it is fascinating reading.

It sounds to me that piffle's son should be on the gifted and talented programme. I also think tinker99 is talking a lot of sense. The clear discrepancies between the experience of these two people raise all sorts of questions.

oh, and I agree with Bink - a firm 'no' vote for a gifted and talented section for the reasons she has already stated.

Also, do gifted and talented 11 year olds ever get demoted back to plain old ordinay school children? If you go by CATS tests or whatever, will they consistently stay high throughout all the years a child is at school?

TM DH says that the boys who come in as scholars will be the ones with highest grades at A level

so yes guess so

But as his school is very selective at 11+

They all start off from a higher level iyswim

But some of the non scholars will also get high grades too etc.

Thanks for the answer, Kangamummy.

As a general point - and not referring to piffle or anyone else - I do feel uneasy with the idea that an 11 year old's future is being mapped out for years ahead.

I have no problem with gifted and talented programmes. I am sure they fill a great need a amongst bright children. I do have a problem with an assumption that being on a G&T programme determines a child's future academic path. Is this a common assumption - it has cropped up on this thread, but don't know if this is unusual? Is is something parents, teachers or the children themselves tend to assume? Do teachers on the gifted and talented programme tell 11 year olds they could be destined for top universities? I hope not.

I think, if my son was on a gifted and talented programme I'd want him to make the most of it for now, enjoy it for what it is, and not worry about the future - and not see the gifted and talented programme as determining his academic future. There's such a gulf of experience between an 11 year old and an 18 year old - so much can happen. I remember several very bright and high achieving girls at my old grammar school who flunked A levels, left before A levels, dropped out of university due to pressure, hormones, bad luck - all sorts of reasons. And if my future had been set at age 11 I would never have got to grammar school in the first place, as I failed my 11+!
My teachers put me in for the 13+ ( no pressure to do this from my parents) and I passed it and changed schools.

Another small point, some posters have said how much easier it is for parents to talk about sporting success as opposed to academic success. I don't think this is necessarily so. Granted I don't have a brilliant athlete or genius for a son so can't speak from experience. However, recently several people in cricket teams, seeing my son play, have told my husband that ds1 has a 'gift' - he can, apparently spin bowl in a very unusual way that cannot be taught. Don't know much more for now. It might be nothing. I feel awkward about broadcasting this small piece of news and would certainly not bring it up in conversation with parents in real life.

Just another thing, to set the record straight, asking my son again about the CAT testing, he did say he took the MIDYAS test and knew his approximate mark - from his point of view, it's just one test amongst many. So the school didn't hide everything, but did definitely downplay it.

tinker99 it's kind of you to say I am not a pushy parent - true this year, I think. However you would not have said that about me during the run up to the 11+ exam . It was important to me that my son did his best to pass the exam as the non grammar schools round here are not good. However, now he is at a good school that he likes, ambition is taking a back seat for a while.

Tigermoth -
Please look after that prospective spin bowler - we need him!

I totally agree Tigermoth, ds has started to map out his ideal future
Me as much as anyone knows how much dreams and opportunites change especially during adolescence.
I have the benefit of hindsight on throwing away a spectacular academic opportunity - so hopefully am well placed to parent ds through any time when he may not know what to do or may not want to do at all...
At the moment all I wnat for him is to enjoy his schooling, socialise, tweak his spiky hair, wear his tie the wrong way round and too short (ahhh memories - thank the lord he is not wearing a skirt) and embrace any oportunity that he chooses.
No different from what I want for my dd (3) succeeding at any given or anticipated level is really rather irrelevent at the end of the day.
Ironic no?

Yes cricket kept this nation suspended for 2 mths last summer and led to good will
Far underrated...
Get him to an academy quick

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