G +T at secondary school - selection etc

[Piffle]

Gifted and Talented not Gin and Tonic.
Ds is in yr 7 grammar, had always been on G+T since starting school and for maths is on GCSE level which he loves
Thing is the G+T letters went out yesterdya to two other pupils
Now before anyone tells me I have my head so far up my arse/am pushy parent etc...
Ds did slip in literacy, this is a common failing yr 6 primary literacy strategy for gitsted children, it comes out as boredom and teachers here get complacents as the kids have already done the 11+ and the grmamar will boof them up a bit
TBH they have.
Now for maths CAT's (cognative abilties tests ) done late last year - age standardised
ds scored 99% (highest poss for feb born) for maths and 94% for English
he teachers have just told me that he has been left out because there are others who try harder.
To be fair ds finds it pretty easy and really enjoys it - he is diligent and does his work happily.
I am really pissed off, as I thought G+T should not exclude kids who do well because they just do
Do I need a reality check?

I did email MN Towers and got this reply:

"Thanks for the link to the thread. We'll discuss this at our next meeting full meeting.

JJ
mumsnet.com"

Weight of numbers will make the difference, so please can everyone else with an interest also send an email?

Hmmm..I agree with you Kangamummy. No one should feel afraid to post their childs achievments. I truly gifted child is something to very proud of indeed but there are other aspects of that child that can me even more important in life...a sense of modesty?
I have met many...many wonderful, children through NAGTY...each one gifted. Some in many areas,some in one particular subject.
The vast majority of children are totally amazed to be considered "gifted". They have tried to hide it for so long that they no longer believe it themselves.
Of course I have also met some not so nice children who use being in NAGTY as a badge to be "superior" to their classmates. These children tend to be not the most gifted as well.
I stand by my statment that I do think Piffle is/has pushed her son..he has got that attitude from somewhere??
the fact is he took the test and is not bright enough for NAGTY. This is where I think the pushiness comes in...instead of accepting this and moving on ..the child becomes upset...the school is questioned etc etc. It is so unnessecary.
I cannot imagine Tigermoth or Roisin acting this way or their children being distraught at what they see as a terrible injustice.
In fact Tigermoths son is not even aware he took a test.
Does this mean Tigermoth cares less for her son than piffle,who is up to the school fighting his corner and demanding entry to NAGTY?
Of course not. Tigermoth should congratulate herself..her son feels no failure...he is happily getting on in school without feeling competitive and anxious.
I fear for piffles son as he gets older ...the exams get harder and it is vital not to feel pressure to be 1st.
I hope some of what Iam saying is making sense.

Batters...this has happened with my friends son.
He is 14 now..but in primary school being an absolute whizz at maths he always shot his hand up to answer. At parents night..my friend was shocked to hear the teacher describe him as cocky, because he put up his hand for every single question.
In all other ways he is such a quiet sensitive boy. My friend now bitterly regrets that her son over heard her discussing this with her husband.
He was v upset and it took years for him to be happy about answering questions again. Even now he waits to see if any one else knows the answer before raising his hand.

Batters this is a public forum and Iam giving my opinion. Iam not attacking or swearing...just telling it how i see it. I won't censor my opinions here. Otherwise what would be the point in having this open forum.

Batters, I run a 'no hands' classroom. I ask questions and pull the name out of a pot to choose who answers. This leads to the whole class working and paying attention....not the class being carried by the more able/interested. That way no-one gets picked-on or victimised for being 'clever'.

This works a treat and the kids see that it is fair. Extension is done on a 1 to 1 basis, while the class is working on a task, the more able are then asked ore probing questions.

The worst aspect of dumming down is the curriculum enforced by the NC, and the low standard of the GCSE. The most able children are just not streched by it in any meaningful way. Which leads them to be complacent and can switch them off a subject. They do find A levels a shock!

We should extend the G and T kids an=s a natural part of the GCSE, not as a patch job

We didn't realise that DS was G & T in english until we took him for a full cognitive asssessment

BUT that was to find out and identify his problems

He has very slow processing, dyspraxia etc etc and the list goes on

His consultant wanted him to have a full cog test to find out all the effects of his prematurity there are several special needs that babies like him have like the processing

so we did and we were completely amazed when we were told how high he was on IQ and NFER tests we had no idea

we always knew he was different because of his extreme prematurity and we knew he always had had a higher reading age and loved to write stories etc. SO basically we never really compared him to his peers because he was always different iyswim

I feel annoyed that he has been failed by the system in that with his slow processing he has not been able to finish the tests in the past and so has always been marked down for it -- instead of them taking his processing time into it and looking at what he actually did do

IYSWIM

So we went to the cog assessment wanting a result and came away with an amazing result and an explanation of everything and his result graphs are just that amazing!!!!!

So the full report has been given to the schools and the senior school -- who have a brill SENCO is going to work with DS to help with his slow processing

I agree Please stop singling out piffle

Right I will move on to another thread if my opinion is not repected. I will leave it at that.
It was piffle who started this thread asking for advice...that is why it might seem iam singling her out. Advice is sometimes not what you want to hear.But I would of thought on an open forum honesty was the best policy. It seems not!

So 99% at maths CAT 3 is not gifted
nor is 97% at non verbal.. Ok...
All performed with a broken arm (his writing hand)
Well if thats the case you can stick your NAGTY.
My son asked me
Mum if what I achieve isn't enough than what is.
So I asked the school as did one or two other parents.
The school then reassessed using ALL of the criteria they are allowed to use instead of the 3 CAT aggregrate.
Ds is in
I did not demand that he be accepted, I asked what the admission criteria was, obviously faced with a confused child who wondered if getting every question right was not good enough.
My ds has a deep sense of injustice - this has come from being severely bullied and assaulted - on school council last year he set up an anti bullying buddy system.
My initial gripe was that the school receptionist offered up the pearl that it was probably for "improvers" or children who made more effort = which to me seems ridiculous. And was proved to be so after speaking to the admissions.
He did not FAIL the test for NAGTY - he did not meet one narrow defining of the criteria.

Piffle why is so bad if your son did not meet the criteria for NAGTY? If your son scored 99% in maths he would of got in on that alone. The school would not have overlooked a boy who got 99% in maths.

This is why schools do't give out CATs scores...to avoid angry parents.

I think the point is that Piffles son DID pass the tests and he WAS excluded. As any responsible parent does, she queried why. I don't consider this pushy, just concerned.

No berries the point I have been trying to make is...Piffles son did not make the top 5% nationally...if he had he WOULD have been accepted ...no question. He has not been excluded. This does NOT happen.
After some pushing from mum..the school are putting him 9or at least they are entering him...we will have to see the evidence first)forward using OTHER criteria...that is rarly used. This is...other test resuls..ie end of year...classwork ....teacher reconmendation.

He was overlooked Tinker
Honestly.
They said that they did an initial scan of the yr 7's based on an average score of all 3 CATS Verbal - Non Verbal and Quantitive.
Ds did score only 70 NPR in the verbal - partly due to his broken arm (it was the first test he sat 2 days after he had broken it - he wanted to do it I wanted him at home

Also

Just got a letter today saying ds is in the Schools Challenge team for his school - it slike University Challenge for secondary schools.

We can go round in circles here all day but Iam not going to say another word on this subject...some mums WIll never accept , I know that from real life experience so iam sure as hell not going through it all on here.
I only posted in the first place because no one here had a clue about NAGTY what is was... the entry criteria...etc.. I wanted to put to sleep all these misconeptions and show that piffles son was not being delibratly ignored.
I wish you the best for your future Piffle and youg piffle.

No, you really don't understand, tinker99! G&T provision is new, and most schools are struggling to get to grips with it - there are bound to be mistakes, and it's up to parents to make sure their children aren't mistake victims. Piffle's ds was victim of a mistake, and it's now been put right.

TINKER99 one thing I don't understand about your arguement is that for one of the senior schools that we applied for instead of entrance by exam

The entrance is by the PARENTS producing a folder containing the CAT RESULTS and why your child should go to that school

How do they expect the parents to produce such a document/folder if the results are not given out?????????

Ok, glad to see a truce...

Sorry...just read the message below piffle. I may have sounded a little harsh in my post below...had a bit of a rough week too. I think I have had to deal with a few too many aggrieved mums this week....summer schools applications!
Of course ..a truce... and if you need any more info come April I'll be happy to help.

I will make sure I do question that he had been admitted fairly when I have his new term interview next week.
It would be a wake up call to think I had forced the schools hand, although the coversations I've had have been a basic swapping of information and the school have gone to lengths to explain that it was their identification system that had failed and they had now put it right.
If they are shitting me they'll be hell to pay