Does social class over power gender at attainment in schools?

[Emily19]

Hello,
I am currently studying on an access to Teacher Training course. I intend to research "Does social class over power gender at attainment in schools?".

Any Information given is completely confidential, if you require a copy of any work I have used, I will be more than happy to supply you with a copy. (In your opinion)

• What are your views on Social class affecting attainment in schools?

• What are your views on Gender affecting attainment in schools?

-Which do you think has the greater influence?

Many Thanks

Loverboys I was in a school like you for a time. I was 'posh' too, it wasn't pretty :). I'd love to do something to stop the scenario you describe and help children currently in my position. I thought that schools and situations like that were a thing of the past but it seems things have got worse?

'I still think she does not know where to draw the line. neither does she seem to know where to draw a line with me when asked.'

Jabed, I would ask you to respect that as an adult I know exactly where to draw the line in terms of how hard I work. I have had no complaints from my colleagues, students or family.

As for this thread, might I suggest that as an adult, too, you are capable of walking away. I have to say I am fascinated by your wish to continue to argue for a point of view that nobody agrees with and which other teachers and parents find rather disturbing.

'There is a distinction being missed here between how much effort a teacher puts into what they do and how much time and extras they do.'

I think you are continuing to miss the point. Nobody is arguing that there is a direct relationship between how much time a teacher devotes to extra-curricular activities and supporting students and how good they are.

What several people have said is that a blanket refusal to get involved in extra-curricular activities together with a blanket refusal to offer support to students outside the classroom together with a blanket refusal to teach students with SEN (together with a lack of awareness of what SEN actually means) is not good signs in a teacher. They suggest a lack of commitment and a lack of concern for students.

Now, maybe you are as you suggest perfectly good at your job working very part-time in an independent school where there are only 3 students with SEN who are permanently taught in isolation and there is no requirement to get involved in any sort of extra-curricular activitity or additional support. However, whether you accept it or not, such schools are extremely unusual (and for several posters on this thread rather unsettling) and, whether you accept it or not, the vast majority of parents and schools would expect rather more from their teachers than you are prepared or able to offer.

It is extremely outdated to assume that all students with SEN (regardless of what their particular SEN is) need to be separated from other children and can and should be taught special 'SEN subjects' by specialist SEN teachers in such a way that they will achieve everything of which they're capable.

I think you might find this article about Carol Greider, a nobel prizewinning scientist, interesting, Jabed dyslexia.yale.edu/greider.html

'?When I was in elementary school I was considered a poor speller and somebody who couldn?t sound out words, so I was taken into remedial classes,? recalls Greider. ?I remember having a tutor come down and take me out of class and bring me to a different room. It certainly felt like I wasn?t as good as the other kids.?'

I do hope you have a look at this article and reflect on how the segregation of those 3 children at your school might impact on their lives and future careers and I do hope you learn that SEN does not have to prevent academic success and as in Greider's case can even enhance it.

If you stop lumping every student with SEN into one category and consider them unteachable except by teachers with specific SEN qualifications then something good will have come out of this.

fivecandles I'm not sure you're right that we parents expect teachers to do extra curricular things. Some teachers, yes. The poor sports teachers never get a free weekend do they? And music - the early starts for choir and late sessions for orchestra are kind of obligatory, though I am very grateful to them.
Drama must be a bugger to around concert time.

But there are other teachers, particularly the part time specialists, who I don't expect to stay late. I'm perfectly content that my children experience their teaching within school hours. I wouldn't consider them lazy or anything for not running clubs etc

Though this is at prep level...I suppose during the gcse years I might be more demanding if my DC were to need any extra help.

Word, I never said that there was an expectation for every teachers to do extra curricular activities all of the time. I would expect most SCHOOLS to offer some extra curricular for most of the time though, especially at secondary. I would expect every teacher to offer some sort of extra-curricular activity regularly during their careers which might mean a organising a trip one year and a lunchtime club the next. And I would expect every teacher to support the students that need it on a day-to-day basis by which I don't mean an hour after school every day, I mean 5 minutes at break to go through what a child needs to catch up after an absence or 15 minutes one lunch to discuss how to improve an essay especially at secondary level. I would question any teacher's commitment who refused EVER to offer either extra-curricular activities or additional support and I would be horrified if a teacher ever refused a student's reasonable request for help.

I guess I'm thinking more of the part time specialists....perhaps the potter who comes in one day a week. Would I expect her to run a weekend session? Or help in after school care? I don't think so...it would seem a bit cheeky iyswim.

Wordfactory, you gave potter working one day a week as an example . How would you view those people who just teach A level ( usually a two day a week job - the number of hours required to deliver A level being about 10
(max) in most schools .... in subjects which are not National curriculum and are not offered in school below A level often . For example, Business, Economics, Classics, Latin and Greek or Psychology. Would you expect them to be running after school clubs and weekends?

Assuming there was no request from students for any additional lessons at any time would you expect them to provide revision clases as well in their own time outside of the hours they are contracted?

Just curious.

I should aff since it is a question that will be asked. I teach 8 hours over two days in my subject - so you see, I am very part time.

Jabed, I did say several days ago,

'I notice that you have been made redundant from one post and you must work very few hours in your current role as you have said you only earn £10,000 a year. I'm not going to leap to any assumptions about why you were made redundant or why your current school seems happy for you to work so few hours, but I do wonder if it might colour your view about workload and commitment. Of course, you have very little need to bring work home when you work so few hours and I can see why you feel little connection to the wider school community for the same reason. Again, I would just urge you to think about ways in which your own experience is very different from that of most teachers.'

Possibly you missed this?????

I now think I understand a bit more how you work, although I have has my suspicions for some time. You have a very particular and unusual experience of teaching - 8 hours over 2 days of primarily A Level in an unusual independent school where it is acceptable to 'kick out' students with SEN from your classes of whom there are only 3 anyway and they are taught in isolation.

As I said above, in these circumstances, of course you don't bring much work and of course you don't feel the need to participate in the wider school community. That's totally understandable. But it is NOT, in any way, a sign that you are smarter or more sensible than the vast majority of teachers.

What's really, really odd though is the way that you suggest that your way of working and attitude has any degree of relevance or rightness to the overwhelming majority of teachers.

I would like to ask you again to reflect on the way in which your experience is very different from the reality of life for most teachers and it is therefore laughable for you to try to advise or criticise them in the way you have so shamefully on this thread.

The fact that YOU don't offer extra-curricular activities and don't have to does not mean it is not praiseworthy when teachers do.

The fact that YOU choose not to teach students with SEN and don't have to does not mean that it is not typical and right for teachers who do.

The fact that YOU don't offer support to students who need it does not mean that most teacher have to and want to.

The fact that YOU don't bring work home doesn't mean that most teachers are not doing this out of necessity.

Most teachers work in state schools. Most teachers work significantly more hours than 8. Most teachers work with students who have a range of abilities and with students who have SEN. Most teachers do take part in extra-curricular activities regularly during their careers. Most teachers offer support to their students outside of their classroom where they need it.

To put things in perspective, although I'm part-time I teach approximately 19 hours over twice as many as you! I probably have significantly more than twice as many classes and over twice as many students. Of course, I'm going to have more than twice as much work!! To have argued that you work less because you're cannier and have a better ideology and I work more because I 'don't know where to draw the line' is truly extraordinary.

Oh for heavens sake .... first you want me to be an adult and walk away and then you open it up again?

Fivecandles. I can assure you that my position is not uncommon in independent schools who tend to use specialists like me, working part time to make their sixth form subject options more attractive and thus retain students who might leave and go to other schools. colleges otherwise.

It is not that uncommon either for us not to have SEN pupils. Maybe its the CE although in my school we did take some pupils who did not pass CE.

You keep commenting about dyslexia . I can genuinely say that in my current school not a single pupil has this issue at all. We have three statemented SEN pupils - one autistic ( not aspergers) who is with us because he found mainstream " too noisy" and couldnt cope so his parents asked us to take him. He is low ability and likes being " in isolation" as you call it! His parents are happy and he gets all the attention and level of work he needs I am sure. Two others in SEN I think have MLD statements. Again their parents have selected us for the education we can provide.

But otherwise we have no SEN. Of course we have scholarship pupils ( G&T being SEN) but they are provided for in extension by the schools diploma as well as curriculum options.

But of course you do not realte to that approach.

As for the reason I was made redundant. I worked in a small rural state school ( circa 500 pupils) with had a small sixth form ( circa 80 pupils) . The LSC funding changed and because it was a small sixth form it had to close down and students were sent to a large FE College. This was an LEA dictat.

As I only taught sixth form ( again two days a week) I was made redundant. I work in a specialist area and in area state or independent it is not unusual to be employed on a part time contract for a couple of days. I have done this since I took early retirement from my post as a vice provost in a university a few years ago ( so you see I dont have to work full time ). Prior to that I had an academic career working my way up the ladder in university teaching and education.

In my present school there are at least five teachers who are employed on a similar basis to myself. In my last school ( state) there were 7 of us who had such contracts. Its not that uncommon.

I have never said that it is uncommon for other teachers to teach SEN. I have really only asserted that I dont. If I have mislead you that I think otherwise then I am sorry.

However, I have asserted that I believe that it is not necessary to run after school and Easter revision classes if you have your wits about you and work properly in class time - hence I have never run or needed to run such sessions. I have never had them requested either.

Now, I will walk away. As you said, I am an adult. Please try not to say anything rude about me knowing I will not reply.

Actually, I am a little amiss on that 10K. I have my P60 today and it says I had 13+K ( but less than 14K) last year. But still I only teach 8 hours o ver two days. Thats pay scale for you.

Cortina i dont consider myself 'posh' - to some i may be middle class based on my earnings but i am working class stock. the school i mention was in a very working class area and there are loads of them! i say was, it has now been knocked down. but nevertheless, in answer to the original question i do feel that class far outways gender. with white working class boys performing worst and being at a great disadvantage in the labour market.

if teachers want to help under achieving working class pupils they have to direct their attention to how they think they are going to support themselves/ provide for their future families and be an example to the rest of the community. the 'realities' of life need to be drilled home. that it is not enough to just 'settle'

sorry jabed/ candle not totally read up on all your recent posts you seem to have gone off topic

outweighs :)

DfE report - 'home communication environment' more important than social background
Professor Sue Roulstone, Underwood Trust Professor at the University of the West of England, will be speaking at the 2011 Talk To Your Baby conference about her current research and her recent Department for Education report, The role of language in children?s early educational outcomes. The research found that a child?s home communication environment had more impact over early school performance than social background. The research also gives concrete examples of how to enrich communication in the home.

www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DFE-RR134.pdf