Does social class over power gender at attainment in schools?

[Emily19]

Hello,
I am currently studying on an access to Teacher Training course. I intend to research "Does social class over power gender at attainment in schools?".

Any Information given is completely confidential, if you require a copy of any work I have used, I will be more than happy to supply you with a copy. (In your opinion)

• What are your views on Social class affecting attainment in schools?

• What are your views on Gender affecting attainment in schools?

-Which do you think has the greater influence?

Many Thanks

If that's directed at me it's total rubbish, Jabed. If you are referring to the other thread I explicitly said from the outset that I do not condone cheating and, of course, I do no such thing with my own students. I was merely trying to understand why a parent would mind her son being given so much support that her son would achieve a grade D instead of an E. In my experience it's much more typical to have the opposite complaint i.e. parents who pressure teachers to help their children to achieve results well beyond what is possible. My comments on that thread have absolutely no relationship to what I have said about the OP on this one. You really are clutching at straws, Jabed and strike me as a deeply troubled individual as well as a shocking teacher.

'I would wager that those with SEN would have poorer English skills than the OP but would not be likely to be sent off with a " flea in the ear". '

It wasn't me that made the comment about sending people off with a flea in their ear. However, I have made it perfectly clear that I do not accept sub-standard work and provide honest feedback to my own students so no hypocrisy here. Fortunately, my own students respond with slightly more maturity than the OP and readily accept the importance of clear expression in forming a coherent argument.

I have made it perfectly clear that I do not accept sub-standard work

Fivecandles, you lost all credibility with me when you acknowledged you spent a lot of time supporting ( cheating) to get your SEN students through exams via coursework marks and could see nothing wrong with that.

I can imagine the conversation

Student presents work with grammatical and spelling errors which make the paper incomprehensible and you say " Come to my twilight classes where I will support you ( euphamism for do it for you) to put it right. Thus a student gets a grade C they are not entitled to and university lecturers and employers end up saying " How the hell did this one pass?")

As one parent pointed out, she needs to know what her child can do under his/her own steam. At least we all know what Emily can do and well done to her for that. .

jabed why are you meshing together two threads? Coursework is a learning process for the student; I don't see that a teacher giving help in the drafting process is cheating, it's an extension of teaching and part of enabling a student to learn. I've seen a lot of coursework in my time. It can be a very valuable exercise, properly done.

I like your use of irony btw (the credibility thing). Very good.

'Fivecandles, you lost all credibility with me when you acknowledged you spent a lot of time supporting ( cheating) to get your SEN students through exams via coursework marks and could see nothing wrong with that.'

Jabed, I spend a lot of time supporting ALL of my students in various different ways. Nowhere have I suggested that I cheat, allow my students to cheat or condone cheating in any way. In fact, my opening point on the other thread was to say explicitly that I do not condone malpractice.

Your implication that 'supporting' and 'cheating' are one and the same is insulting to me and further evidence of both your lack of understanding of what good teaching is and lack of awareness about what special needs actually means.

You seem to have very little awareness of how ignorant you sound and I'm beginning to feel sorry for you as well as sorry for your students.

'Student presents work with grammatical and spelling errors which make the paper incomprehensible and you say " Come to my twilight classes where I will support you ( euphamism for do it for you) to put it right.'

And if you're going to insult me and my students and students and teachers in general by suggesting that support is a euphemism for cheating you might at least take the trouble to learn how to spell 'euphemism'.

In fact, your perception of me (which I have no idea how you reached) couldn't be further from the truth. I am well known amongst my students for refusing to do their proof-reading for them and refusing to accept anything less than their absolute best. Sometimes my support might involve telling a student to go away and put some effort in. If you're going to try and attack me, Jabed, I might give this advice to you too. At least try and support your points with a bit of evidence instead of hurling quite bizarre and utterly foundless insults. It might also help if you read and checked you have understood what I have actually written before you respond to it.

FYI, Jabed, support might involve giving a workshop on exam technique, looking at sample scripts and considering why they achieved the marks they did and how a student might move up to the next band, considering how to improve planning skills, advising students how to redraft a piece of coursework, identifying and learning tricky spellings, going over key terms and concepts etc, etc.

Please notice this list does not include writing coursework for students or cheating in any way.

It may also interest you to know that I am an experienced examiner and moderator for a large exam board. The exam board advises teachers to do all of the above.

What a shame you refuse to offer your own students such support!

Its cheating according to the exam boards Yellowstone.
Of course they dont want to know really because
a) it would ruin exam pass rates
b) they might get some of the blame
c) it means a lot of work for them dealing with it and an education mess bigger than the BP oil spill off Florida.

I have not meshed two threads together any more than fivecandles did with me on that thread. What I have done is pick up her inconsistency and point out her hypocracy here with Emily.

Fivecandles, my students do not do coursework so there is no reason for me to need to support them beyond lessons.

They do very well on normal lessons. I have no need for twilights to support them etc.

I would stand my 50% A grade pass rate and 89% A and B grade pass rate and no student below a C for the last few years at A level against anything you have to offer with all that time you give for free any time.

Ignorant I may sound, but I wonder who parents would rather have as a teacher really? Someone who gets results or someone who spends loads of time doing extra classes?

If course you could be even more hypocritical and argue the pupils only pass because of their ?privileged" background ( i.e. social class) but I used to do the same for the Emily's of this world when I taught in FE. You cannot have it all ways Fivecandles.

You may be able to spell but spelling never passed an exam yet and I have yet to meet anyone other than the petty minded who use spelling as an argument to invalidate another rather than dealing with the issue in hand.
Its called a non sequitur argument ( and that is spelt right) Its a logical fallacy and you have committed it. It just demonstrates your inability to actually debate a major point in hand.

I do not condone malpractice.

Of course you dont. Another hypocracy. It doesnt stop you doing it though.

It may also interest you to know that I am an experienced examiner and moderator for a large exam board. The exam board advises teachers to do all of the above.

This is supposed to impress me? It gives you some sort of authority does it? It means you are above cheating does it?

I dont think so.

What a shame you refuse to offer your own students such support!

Shame on me for what exactly? Shame on me because I teach well in lessons times and my students are well enough taught they dont need additional support and can go home and have a life? Shame on me for ensuring I do the job I am required to do and I do it well without extra support time?

And at least my students are showing the school, their future employers and their families what they can achieve under their own steam rather than what I can achieve for them with coursework massaging.

'Ignorant I may sound, but I wonder who parents would rather have as a teacher really? Someone who gets results or someone who spends loads of time doing extra classes?'

I just don't get why you're going on the attack like this.

I haven't actually mentioned my results at all yet you assume that my results are bad. Why?

You also, bizarrely, assume that offering additional support is in conflict with getting good results.

As it happens the only 'twilight classes' I have run were for G & T students from across a whole LEA. They completed a GCSE in addition to their others in a year in one evening a week and 100% of them achieved A*-B.

As for who parents would rather have as a teacher. Well, I've never had any complaints. I think if parents haven't complained about your attitudes particularly to those with SEN but also your unwillingness to offer any sort of support that you're not directly paid for then they certainly should be complaining.

'I do not condone malpractice.

Of course you dont. Another hypocracy. It doesnt stop you doing it though.'

Please show me any evidence that I have been involved in malpractice.

How dare you? Honestly.

And if you are going to use words like hypocrisy, perhaps you should learn to spell them.

I do not assume your results are bad. I assume they probably could be bad if you didnt give it so much extra time and support to force them up. I would say your own comments are veidence for that also.

Why attack? I am not attacking. Its you who have spent time attacking me - claiming I am ignorant, a jobsworth, someone who should not be teaching.
I know though , should the exam boards really get down to nitty gritty, which of us would be first for the chop for malpractice be you an experienced examiner or cheif of the examinations board.

You are just lucky the practice is so widespread now that its virtually institutionalised malpractice.

How dare you? Honestly

Honesty is one thing you have been short on in my view given the things you have said about your teaching methods and practice.

And I dare!

I wonder who would get the best results (or indeed if there would be a difference in results) if pupils had identical abilities and everything was equal - class size, time tables, resources ...

'Shame on me because I teach well in lessons times and my students are well enough taught they dont need additional support and can go home and have a life? Shame on me for ensuring I do the job I am required to do and I do it well without extra support time?'

Jabed, I do not believe it is possible to be a good teacher who meets the needs of all your students whilst refusing to spend any time at all outside of the classroom either supporting students or being involved in the wider school community unless you are directly renumerated for such time.

It makes no difference at all whether students are in a state comprehensive in Hackney or at Eton, there will always be students who need extra support and students who want to be involved in extra-curricular activities. In recent months I have freely and willingly given my time to give a mock Oxbridge interview to a student on target to get all A*s at A Level and to assess a speaking and listening activity from a student who has missed several weeks of college after her father unexpectedly died. Neither one of these students was more or less deserving than the other but both of these students needed time outside of the classroom to meet their potential.

I have met many, many teachers from both the private and public sector in various different capacities - as a moderator, an examiner, a consultant and parent - and never one with your attitudes. Your attitudes to teaching and money and to children with special needs stinks and you let the teaching profession down.

'Honesty is one thing you have been short on in my view given the things you have said about your teaching methods and practice. '

Jabed, you have made some extremely unpleasant accusations as part of a vindictive personal attack. You have not a shred of evidence for these. And now you accuse me of dishonesty!!!!

'I am not attacking'

You have accused me of dishonesty, hypocrisy and cheating!!

These are blatant lies.

In contrast, you have been quite open about your jobsworthiness acknowledging yourself that what you say may be considered 'crass and insensitive'. You have revealed almost total ignorance about what special needs means and what good teaching actually is.

'I know though , should the exam boards really get down to nitty gritty, which of us would be first for the chop for malpractice be you an experienced examiner or cheif of the examinations board.

You are just lucky the practice is so widespread now that its virtually institutionalised malpractice.'

This is just bizarre.

Where is your evidence that I have been involved in malpractice?????? What on earth are you actually talking about????

I do not 'force grades up' and giving extra support to students is not the only reason why I get good results.

Only in your deeply unpleasant view could supporting students considered to be a bad thing, Jabed.

It is something praised by the exam boards, OFSTED, parents and teachers. It is part of the reason why I work in a grade 1 department in a grade 1 college.

I repeat with your attitudes you are truly a disgrace to the profession.

Oh I would wager absolutely on me hands down mrz.
I dont have anywhere near the resources and teaching time available to me that fivecandles says she has.

I dont even have a classroom sometimes. My students have me as their resource.

Neither are they all high ability. Most have the ability to pay and they do demand but my classes are normally distribted on ability range.

distributed

These are blatant lies.

No its not. I have paraphrased the things you have said yourself.

You on the other hand have made false accusations about me. You have verbally abused me and attempted to use non sequitur arguments to discredit me but you think I should not respond to that? I find that unforgiveable. Funny how you can?t accept it when the shoe is on the other foot isn?t it five candles?

I am supposed to accept I am a job worth who shouldn?t be teaching because I don?t need to provide extra support for my students but when I point out that much of that support time and coursework help you give is misconduct, you don?t like it.