Help please, Buyer saying they received toilet paper not pram

[Angelika321]

As above really. I sent a pram via courier sold for £300, but the buyer is telling me they received toilet paper.

Ebay are insisting I accept the return, (and then file an appeal) but I don't see why I should.

Do I have any recourse?

Are the photo files too big? That may stop the messages sending.

It’s too late now but it’s worth photoing eBay items before you send them.

This is why I don't use Ebay any more.

It’s too late now but it’s worth photoing eBay items before you send them.

How can you use that as objective proof, though? There are plenty of scammers posing as both sellers and buyers. It would be so easy to put a laptop in an addressed box, take lots of 'pre-dispatch' photos for 'proof', and then remove it and fill the box with potatoes, claiming later that it must have been intercepted by a rogue courier.

Could your label have dropped off?
We had this happen.
Brown tape would show up on your CCTV.

There is no claim against the courier. They delivered the parcel and have fulfilled their obligation.

There is if they delivered the wrong parcel and/or lost OP's parcel.

The problem with insurance - whether Hermes, other courier company, or Royal Mail is that you only get ONE value refunded. So if you sell a watch for £20 that goes missing, you can claim a £20 refund. But you would then have to refund this to the BUYER to compensate them for an item they paid for and didn't receive. You, the seller, are still out of pocket for £20 as you don't have the watch either.
Not true.
You only refund back the money the buyer paid to you back to them. And than you get compensation money form the courier. So both have their money back.

How can you use that as objective proof, though? There are plenty of scammers posing as both sellers and buyers. It would be so easy to put a laptop in an addressed box, take lots of 'pre-dispatch' photos for 'proof', and then remove it and fill the box with potatoes, claiming later that it must have been intercepted by a rogue courier.

True. It helped in one case though so I do it for high value items.

This is a scam. I sell regularly on eBay and have had issues with expensive items. eBay side with the customer everytime. Even if you had taken photos of the box it wouldn't prove anything. As previously mentioned have a look for the buyer on Facebook and search for the pram incase it is being sold on another account.

I’m sure it is a scam and doubt eBay will refund.

RippleEffect
Superb advice. Thanks. I would never have known how to handle this. I’ve been very lucky with eBay so far.

Good luck with investigating the buyers.

So. It’s up to you. Legally you’ve got to right this. However. This should be insured under the couriers insurance.

Did you track it? Take photos of it? Contact the courier. They would have insurance for this.

You DO however. Have to take the item back. But I would weigh it. So that when wrapped. It’s would be of different either

I do believe you are being scammed though

True. It helped in one case though so I do it for high value items.

It's a good idea, if not bombproof - and at least it does prove that you do actually have the item that your buyer has bought from you in the first place. I suppose it could also help in the case of a dodgy courier, if they switch or re-package tampered-with parcels - you have a photo of the goods being put into an addressed white box and a parcel with the same tracking number arrives at the buyer's house in a brown box.

The weight on the package might not count as solid evidence. When I buy Hermes shipping as the sender I choose the weight myself. If I wanted to, I could send a 100g package as a more than 10kg one. Hermes would handle it without question.

Oh dear I heard of an eBay pram scam last week.
The seller sent the pram
Buyer wanted to return it
Seller accepted return request.
A box of rubbish arrived.

The buyer had proof of postage and so the seller was obliged to refund.

Ask the buyer to take as many photos from all different angles and tell her that as the parcel was on your home CCTV as it was picked up, between you, you'll be able to prove that the parcels have been swapped. Tell her also that you fully insured it with Hermes so once you have photographic evidence, you'll be able to recover the 280 and the 20.

It's unclear whether it's the buyer or the parcel company carrying out the scam, but by working with the buyer like this, you should either encourage her to see that you are not at fault and also that the scam will be busted by the comparison of the photos.

You should also report it to the police. They deal with this type of eBay crime. Tell the buyer you're reporting it to the police as you're concerned the courier stole it.

I think the courier company should have a record of the weight, because
They would charge you if you had under stated the weight.
They need to make sure for legal reasons they’re not overloading the van and h and safety of driver, lifting weights etc. - regardless of whether they comply with it or not.
Also, would imagine with a pram the weight would be in the product specifics, because the weight of it would likely be a feature. So try to find the specifics online.
I would try other means first, but would also try the weight angle if all else failed.

Hermes weigh items sometimes:

support.myhermes.co.uk/app/answers/detail/a_id/522/~/overweight-or-oversized-parcel

Hoping this works!

First 2 pictures are what's been received. 3rd picture is the parcel I sent with my husband in the shop.

The picture attached to this is the parcel being collected by the courier from the shop.

Not the same parcel.
Do the courier's have photos of delivered item?
You can clearly see that one is a box, the others rolls, then you have the disappearing tape.
Contact courier ASAP , ask them how a different parcel was delivered too what you sent. Include the two pictures, do it via twitter, they reply faster.

Is the CCTV image from the shop you dropped it off at? That's clearly a different parcel. Make sure you get the date and time of that image.

Thank you for all the help and advise so far.

As recommended above by @Handsoffisback I've been very polite and have basically sent the same message stating that we need to get to the bottom of this and that Hermes are looking into it and I'm sure she won't mind her details being passed to the police to help with the investigations.

It could be the courier but more likely it's the buyer.
It's a well known scam to claim something different was received or they send back a load of rubbish instead of the item.
Do as the other posters here have suggested and contact the buyer, upload all the photos and tell them you are reporting it to the police etc.
Then see what happens.

Definitely not the same parcel. It’s nowhere near as big and there’s no tape, and the courier one is clearly boxed.