Help please, Buyer saying they received toilet paper not pram

[Angelika321]

As above really. I sent a pram via courier sold for £300, but the buyer is telling me they received toilet paper.

Ebay are insisting I accept the return, (and then file an appeal) but I don't see why I should.

Do I have any recourse?

How far away do they live? Honestly, if it's within about 75 miles I'd seriously consider calling. With my phone camera ready when they answer the door and your pram is in the hallway...

Failing that, everything that's been said above.

I sell lots of high value items via eBay, jewellery as a registered business seller, problems are rare and eBay don't always back the buyer.

Here is what I'd suggest:

Get still shots off your CCTV, you could even try snapping these using your phone. Take a photo of the drop off receipt for the parcel. Take a photo of the parcel purchase details - crucially make sure you get the weight.

Send a message to the buyer saying how sorry you are they are not satisfied with the item received.

Upload the photographic evidence to the buyer that you have of your actions (this can be used as part of a case should things escalate).

Exclaim your shock and ask them just how many toilet rolls it took to fill the parcel and for images and a description of the item received so you can open a case with action fraud - the online fraud service and the courier firm.

Ask for their contact details to pass on should action fraud or the courier company ask the police to follow this up.

Keep super civil and polite.

Next look at their feedback. 90% of the problem customers I've had when I check out their feedback and the feedback they've left for others they have a pattern of being an abusive buyer. eBay take this very seriously and ban bad buyers - they're working hard on this, I've noticed much harder over the last 12-18 months. Use the report buyer feature (its anonymous the buyer wont know you've done it) to raise any suspicious activity you find.

Keep your cool, don't make any acusations you cant back, only make phone or online chat communication with eBay in the morning (ideally between 9 and 10am as you're more likely to get Ireland).

More than once I've had things suddenly turn up. More than once I've noticed that buyers who've messed me around and I report plus add to my blocked list are no longer registered eBay users.

CHEEKY FUCKS!!!!! Surely as you have it insured they will cover the cost but that does NOT sit well with me as the buyer will also get a refund and they'll get to keep the f*cking pram the lying twats.

Sorry but my gut feeling is that it was the buyer, especially as they paid a large amount plus postage. I were going to buy a pram on eBay it would be a cheap one but also in good condition. Genuine buyers aren’t interested in paying £££s for secondhand items when they could just pay a bit more and buy new.

If you aren’t close, and can share the buyers rough geographical location. I’m sure you could find an obliging mumsnetter to lurk outside their house to see if the pram is in use. Although they may not even be planning to use it, maybe will just sell it on.

OP if you google 'pram scam ebay - there are tons of posts about this exact same thing happening.

I would send a link to the person you sold it to, so that they can see that you are both victims of this.

And then start unpicking it, starting with Hemnes.

Sorry

Surely as you have it insured they will cover the cost

As mentioned, there could potentially be an issue because the upper limit of the insurance was less than the pram sold for ...

Lots of good advice there from RippleEffects

If I were going to buy a pram on eBay it would be a cheap one but also in good condition

For me, it would also have to be one sold nearby ... why buy a pram which has to be couriered when there are so many for sale? And doesn't the fact they did this increse the risk of it being a scam?

Not sure about "getting a photo of them using it" either. It's a long time since I risked selling on ebay, but wouldn't they then just wash their hands of it and tell OP to contact the police?

In the meantime op I would cancel all cards that are linked to ebay. We were scammed on ebay once for a very expensive motorcycle suit and ebay said we had to accept return and refund, we cancelled the cards and eBay refunded them not us. You have to ring eBay and explain and be adamant that you will not accept toilet roll in place of your pram. They should be on your side if you have good feedback.

We make everything buyer collect now. Takes longer but things still sell.

And I make them sign a document to say they’ve inspected the item and are happy with it.

There’s some right scum around.

It's probably a scam unfortunately. You know the buyers name and address so I would probably try and find their local fb selling group and see if the pram is listed for sale by them.

If it helps, I always take a photo of the parcel and send it to the buyer saying 'I am posting this today'. I often use a patterned parcel tape with something like skulls or flowers on in a specific way (criss cross or 3 inches between strips). It would be very difficult to mimic without further purchase.

Can't guarantee it will protect anyone else, but it's an idea for the future.

If I'm posting multiple items, I photograph all in the same shot with addresses blocked outand simply say 'one of these will arrive with you shortly' If they're small items it's quite fun using different parcel papers for each one!

Keep it civil with the buyer and let them return it, I doubt that the parcel of toilet roll they return will weigh 13kg. You can then challenge the return based on the comparative weight with Ebay, but speak with them so they don't automatically refund when the parcel is returned.

Also, if the pram is still for sale look it up online, as sometimes the product info will state the weight o it, include that info as evidence alongside your receipt from courier company - which should also indicate weight of product you posted.

Probably the buyer, Hermes courier high value items all the time, I really doubt any would bother replacing a pram with toilet roll when they could take electronics etc (not justifying that of course, but logically). Unfortunately the blame usually lies with the seller in the eyes of refunding the money etc, it is a popular scam, sorry OP.

About the weight of the toilet roll - Costco sell huge packs of 40, and while I've never actually weighed one I imagine they won't be far off 6kg a pack. Two of those lashed together would be roughly the size of a folded pram, and 2 x 6kg would about do it?

Just a thought ... and probably one which has occurred to the scammers as well

Was the packaging the same as when you sent it.
As said ask for photos of labels , inside outside of packaging and item received.

For me, it would also have to be one sold nearby ... why buy a pram which has to be couriered when there are so many for sale?

I always think that when you hear of the international car/courier scams - people ostensibly willing to pay massively over the odds for a common, run-of-the-mill used - UK-spec - car and have it shipped to Africa, rather than just buy one more locally. All of the vehicles for sale in their own or even neighbouring countries, but that 8yo UK-spec base-model Fiesta from Aberystwyth is the one for them.

If I were looking online for a car, it wouldn't cross my mind for a second to look what vehicles might be available in Nigeria as it's absolutely nowhere near to where I live. To be honest, I'd even be put off from buying one from NI, as then I'd have the faff of organising a ferry as well.

I know a lot of people do import cars from abroad - Japan especially - but this is usually via a recognised importer rather than just organising your own courier.

The problem with insurance - whether Hermes, other courier company, or Royal Mail is that you only get ONE value refunded. So if you sell a watch for £20 that goes missing, you can claim a £20 refund. But you would then have to refund this to the BUYER to compensate them for an item they paid for and didn't receive. You, the seller, are still out of pocket for £20 as you don't have the watch either.

@Handsoffisback was very canny. That’s good advice.

To make a claim either with eBay/Paypal/Hermes.

Ask the buyer to weigh the item. And photo the weight.

Screen shot the email from the buyer confirming non-receipt.

I have to warn you that trying claim through Hermes is a nightmare even when your case is cast iron. They have no telephone customer service any more, just phone numbers that tell you to contact them via their website. Their website chat is automated not live with a person. And they don’t list their contact email on their site.

I used [[//www.resolver.co.uk]]

If you use Hermes in the future it would safer to use somewhere like www.parcel2go.co.uk - they will then deal with Hermes directly.

I've tried uploading pictures but the messages are not getting posted.

The pictures show a partly opened package wrapped in a black bin bag with tissues showing enough. The postage labels are attached.

My package was in a box which was wrapped in a black bin bag but I also used brown tape on mine.

Her pictures do not show any tape.

www.resolver.co.uk

The problem with insurance - whether Hermes, other courier company, or Royal Mail is that you only get ONE value refunded. So if you sell a watch for £20 that goes missing, you can claim a £20 refund. But you would then have to refund this to the BUYER to compensate them for an item they paid for and didn't receive. You, the seller, are still out of pocket for £20 as you don't have the watch either.

But you still have the £20 they paid you originally- so you are not out of pocket.

Have you spoken to EBay rather than just going through the resolution process? They are much more helpful on the phone and the Irish call centre even more helpful according to other EBay sellers. Tell them you suspect it’s a scam, also tell the buyer you are reporting it as a crime to the police as your item has been swapped-see if that puts them off!

It wouldn't surprise me at all if, before long, it becomes commonplace for tiny, very cheap motion-activated IP cameras to be hidden in the top of the boxes of high-priced items, to capture an image of the person opening it - their identity and reaction (e.g. "What is all this toilet roll?! Where's the pram I bought?!"). It would also catch out dodgy couriers too - anybody who needed to open a parcel to tamper with the contents.

Could be on very dodgy legal ground, of course, but it's shocking just how many thieves and dishonest people there are out there. It only serves to poison the well for all of the honest buyers and sellers out there who find trading online a very convenient resource.