Binge Eating Disorder Support 3

[FightingBed2014]

Welcome, this thread is for those that have disordered eating / Binge Eating Disorder (BED) and need support. We are all working towards a better relationship with food, together. Everyone is welcome to join in and share as much or as little as you like. Our focus is on learning to be happy with who we are right now and moving away from our negative self image, thoughts and eating patterns one step at a time.

Previous threads can be found here:

Thread 1 March 2014
Thread 2 October 2014

My blog following recovery from BED can be read here:Fighting BED

Many of us are following Dr Fairburn's Overcoming Binge Eating Second Edition book Here This is also used by a lot of Eating Disorder services in their treatment programmes.

Although we have no rules, we would ask that people either avoid talking about or be mindful when it is necessary that the following can be a trigger for those with an eating disorder; asking advice on how to start a new diet, talking about specific weight and clothes sizes. Please also remember that those supporting you need support too.

This thread was started by a BED sufferer and the majority of contributors are Eating disorder sufferers and not professionals. As with any online forum, it is best to supplement support on here with real life support and advice from professionals

I would not go as far as cavemen did, for example good grains are on my list of food, my granny would have recogonised them, but caveman would have not. I do not need much grains, some quinoa and sometimes some rye - ryebread is a staple in the diet in my country of origin and I believe that even if it has some gluten it is different to the gluten found in wheat (I am relatively sugar and gluten free to cure recurrent miscarriage issues, not dietary issues). And I do not see how i could get my vit B if I did do the caveman approach - and i need group B vitamins to be in place, as they affect my cycle and my luteal phase is shortish anyway.

But for people without BED I guess caveman can be quite useful, as these ppl can tolerate moderate restrictions for some period of time. We can not.

I linked this somewhere else but as we are on the subject of paleo diets I went paleo and now I hate everything

Cassie I'd suggest thinking about quality rather than calories. In terms of first, what your body needs (good quality protein, fats and veg) to function well and feel good and then what you really enjoy. Ideally lots of things will fit into both groups and they should form your staple diet. Those that only feature in one making fewer appearances .

You don't have a lot of good fat in the food you list (we get these from cold pressed oils, raw nuts, olives, avocado, oily fish - salmon, sardines, mackerel - and full fat dairy) and the protein isn't great quality - chicken is good but sausages and protein shakes not so much. IMO protein shakes are best left to those trying to eat large quantities of protein for specific goals such as weight training or for health reasons (if unable to eat enough real food). Better to get protein from unprocessed meat, fish, dairy, eggs, raw nuts, peas, chickpeas, lentils for example.

Hi Royal . Have you sought help in RL? As well as that I'd recommend the '8 Keys to Recovery from an Eating Disorder' book that Fighting linked upthread, perhaps even before tackling Fairburn, and of course you are welcome here

Sleep, oh how I laughed over your paleou link! It was so healthy to read! I have done some paleoxcooking just out of interest, it is mostly horrible! Unless you make it with fine almnd flour, which tastes OK but costs horrible!

Indeed, keeping to common sense where food is concerned is the most importwnt thing. To the discussion about what has to be in the good diet I would also have to add something sweet, for me it suffices if it is fruit, I can do without sugar, but then at least I must have fruit. All good fats and proteins and vegs can go in, but without some fruit in the day I am just miserable! Life must not feel miserable because we try to improve our eating habits!

I suspect bthw that reading and writing here on this thread is causing quicker recovery. Because I would find it stupid to write all this for myself and of course here we only write in response to each other, whoch makes it easier to get going. But my recovery has so much hastened since I joined here, I think. And I am learning to ignore fallbacks because they are normal and everyon has them, and also learnign to notice positives!
Thanks everybody!

Jass I agree with you on needing some sweetness, I think we are hard wired to crave it. I've also never bought into the idea of giving up or avoiding fruit, obviously too much of anything isn't good but to me it smacks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

Nothing kills my appetite either jass.

Interesting you and carrie find no snacks best. Just shows there is no one way.

So pleased you have a period of non-binging cassie. I found it gave me such hope.

Glad you feel like you are turning a corner fighting, such good news.

A difficult day today, I think linked to grazing on food last night when I didn't need to. It was interesting to view how much impact it had on how I felt today (v negative/body issues etc). I had the same body yesterday, just a different mindset. But have not 'slipped' so far.

How do doing maggie and sos and anyone who is lurking?

Welcome royal. I attend an NHS CBT group for eating disorders, they mix Bulimics & BEDers, so I think it generally seen as having similar issues.

But I know that Bulimic behaviours might have a greater impact on one's body than BED which adds another dimension.

I believe Beat, the UK charity run online groups and sessions if you wanted something specific.

Push for NHS help if you are in the UK. I think a few ppl on this thread have said a 'normal' body weight is viewed by some Dr's as evidence you must be ok....

Snacking issue - Yes, since stopping eating once I have started is very hard for me, doing it 5-6 times a day rather than three does not work. Also, if I had to divide reasonable amount of food into 5 not 3 portions over the day I would find it even more difficult to stop once I started. So snacks do not work indeed for me.

Did a fruit afternoon today. Instead of proper meal had cherries, strawberries, a couple of apricots. It is very warm here so I did not want any food, but now it cooled down had a sandwitche, too. Ryebread and some cheese and ham. And then again this wonderful I am full- feeling settled in. I felt it a couple of times I think a week ago, then have not had the same satiety, rather felt like I need to get busy to not eat more, tonight it is again this comfortable feeling like I could sit it the kitchen and I would eat nothing. Usually I still have to climb upstairs to hide from overdoing it in the evenings, but glimpses of "normal" are there.....

What, Margo - is it really poss in Uk that you turn up to your GP, say you puke to get rid of your meals to control your weight and they say "thats OK, dear, you are not desperately underweight yet, nor are you overweiight, so keep going? ". I mean I come from poor east and 20y ago it would not have taken any effort to find such a GP in my country, but at this day and age and in a developed country? How can that be possible?
But considering i have seen some pretty incompetent doctors also in Luxembourg as far as womens' issues are concerned, maybe it is more common than I think.....Back home docs are the best paid folk on public pay (to avoid that they all leave for Finland and work there), so maybe that is why they tend to be quite good, but I have found it astonishing how things are in developed west sometimes compared to not yet so developed eastern EU places....

I have no idea about the bulimia side of it but I do know that when I spoke to the doctor about myself he said 'well you look ok for it'. What he didn't see is that I have a very high fat percentage and my bmi was over 25 (think bmi is a load of shot tho)

Same surgery as the doctor who said I was too young for chest pains to be anything serious.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't snack.

Will read the paleo link when putting DD to bed.

Bad (ish) day today. I had four slices of peanut butter on toast today. I simply love peanut butter. I also went to Tesco and in the reduced section was a massively thick handmade sausage roll for 30p. I ate it secretly before I got home so DP couldn't see. I wasn't hungry, it wasn't nice. I forced myself to chew and eat slowly. I wanted to make myself sick to get it out. I contemplated it for half an hour. I didn't.

I agree with the sweet thing. I used to eat ice/freeze pops so avoid chocolate and sweets. Today I had a hugely overpriced classic fruit salad and tomorrow I have mangoes. I drink a lot of fizzy pop in the evening too

Evening everyone. Sleep your link was brilliant, really made me laugh. [grin

JassS it great that you feel being part of the thread is making such a difference for you. I agree with the thoughts it makes us see others have difficult times too. I find it as frightening as you do that UK Dr can be so dismissive of eating disorder symptoms. Getting one with relevant knowledge is a totally lottery.

Margo sorry to hear you have had a tough day. It's tough when our own perceptions can change so quickly. Do you think there are any hormones at play? I think you have mentioned this can have a negative effect for you.

Maggie I hope you are still enjoying the new book inspiration.

Cassie have you had any thought's on what made you want to eat in secret? Would having a diet that includes these types of food occasionally help, removing the guilt?x

Thinking about how we all eat while on this journey, JassS put it really well: we can't handle restrictions.

Over the years we have likely contributed a rather large amount to the diet mega industry with repeated attempts telling ourselves 'this time, this time I will do it'. It's like we found a stick to beat ourselves with, in the hopes of reaching a false ideal. Eventually we crack and revert to what ever our eating was before, be it BED, Bulemia, Anorexia etc. Until we get the resolve to find another stick. What if we replaced that beating with a process that comes from a place of love? A hug is preferable to another stick is it not?

There is a lot that needs to change with society and how images are through media. We are part of the change already, not just here with people reading our posts but what we will pass onto our children.

With my work, I can think of very few examples where subjects weren't trying to emulate media photo's and overly worrying about how they and their children looked (always female clients). Yet when I presented images, were surprised that the most beautiful and emotional images, were the one's taken without them knowing and when most relaxed, just them. It's a powerful reminder for me and a good example of how relaxing our learned habits isn't what we think it will be, changing them could actually give us what we were chasing all along.

Hi, I'm not ignoring other posts, but reading and responding under time pressure, something I hate to do - but Fighting I love your insight with the photos, I think a blog about it would be a great idea and reminder for you and others

Cassie, it was normal what happened. It had to happen. You had been "good", labelling that behaviour as good. Now your brain or body or both rebelled against "goodness". I do not know why but it always happens. All you can do is accept it and go on, eating three meals a day and no restrictions. I think this is the way to recovery - the binges shorten, if you do not beat yourself up, do not promise yourself "I will be good again tomorrow and thereafter forever after". It just do not work. I am no specialist and I have no idea why, but this is how this BED cycle goes. Just dust yourself off, forget yesterday, certainly do not try to compensate for it today.
About eating in secrecy - you have the added pressure that tou have declared to your DH that you are reforming and will eat healthily. I think you must take it further and tell hom that you will occasioanlly fail, at least twice a week I think we fail ans somwhow overest or eat what we did not plan. Important - you can not gain with overeating only twice a week, If rest of the days you were normal. Calm. Keep calm. And tell husband these setbacks are to be expected. Otherwise you add secrecy and shame you do not need. And he will be confused - seeing what you eat he will think you should lose weight, but you will be stable, not losing - he will wonder.
Just when this happens. tell hom you already had sth in the car and now you do not fancy the dinner or may want it later. It is normal, all normal nonBEC people sometimes eat impulsively. Normals are not perfects, they just do not think about it when they occasionally overeat or impulse eat. Which keeps them from BED cycle.
Onwards!

Off to work, but felt Cassie this neede to be written now, maybe not the most comfy text, but am in hurry!

Hi,

Just a quick question for sleep or others. I have tried adding more nutritious meals into my diet - I'm not labelling anything as bad but still having nutritious stuff first. I'm not bingeing which is amazing (although bingeing is relative- perhaps I am for some people) but I am overeating.

I don't consider dark chocolate bad, and keep a stock of it in the house, I have been keeping bread around too and this week I have been eating with other people - they provided the food which has included naan breads, brownie cake, birthday cake, etc and I have eaten it slowly and enjoyed. Two problems I am still overeating and continuing to gain weight.

I do sympathise with one other poster (in sorry I any remember which one and I'm using an iPhone so hard to scroll up!) but I have a huge appetite. I can snack all day and I am still getting through a lot of chocolate (a bad habit). It helped to think of myself as someone I loved - so I provide the healthy stuff but I still have the craving a for bread and chocolate - so I haven't binged but I am overeating. Whereas 50g would be enough for some - not for me- despite savouring it. Yet if I ban it I crave it....

Days I have had less than five hours sleep is proving really tough. I just want food or coffee all day.

On a more positive note, my bingeing has been massively reduced. Only on the sleep deprived days have I struggled. Although I haven't had much stress this week.

It was lovely to savour all those lovely foods and not be ridiculous about it afterwards ie the "sod it I've had one let's eat ten" attitude, but u have to be honest, when I eat something lovely I want more, despite savouring it and eating mindfully. So struggling with this a bit, especially as I have gained a little weight on my bottom this week!

I am just mindful, like you Point out sleep there are foods that are more nutritious than others, but also there are healthy eating guidelines -ie don't eat excessive chocolate (even though the stuff I choose is "healthy" 85 percent cocoa stuff that I love) every day (excessive is excessive by the way- 700 kcal!) but it cheers me up and I don't gobble it down, and gives me an instant hit of energy. So I don't know how to handle this- if it's there I want it all (it's not bingeing, bingeing is different for me- ie there is no stop with any carb- and afterwards I'll eat anything) but I realise it's excessive- and I am obviously gaining weight. I also had high triglycerides some time ago so a bit concerned but not overly as my main weight gain has been due to years of bingeing.

So perhaps the obvious is just don't eat it- but I crave it. Also eating what other people eat- the meals they offer me - there are so many cakes, last week I was offered cake every day and I was pleased I had some without afterwards thinking "blow it" but food is everywhere. It's tough to avoid it, without actively avoiding it and then that creates the binge tension...

Sorry I said I would be lurking (which sounds a bit creepy now I type it!) but a bit stuck. What would you all do?
Thank you!

Ps what has also been helping, and maybe it's the wrong thing but what helps to curb my appetite and appeals to my excessive nature is to pile my plate with vegetables - it's probably a bit excessive at this point but they really feel me up more than bread... So with my evening meal I have been having spinach and a whole head of steamed broccoli, it's almost like a binge but with no urge to keep going afterwards. I'm not sure if that helps anyone or if I am doing the right thing. Sleep, if my son asked me for extra broccoli, i would say yes so I'm happily saying yes to myself! I have noticed if I don't have loads of veg I prefer lots more bread/ stodgy to keep me full.

Ps margo I'm with you with the appetite that never stops too- I have noticed it is much worse when tired or two weeks before my period( sorry if that's too graphic). This week what has helped is organising an exercise class or a walk AFTER my meals. I haven't succeeded every day but just know you are not alone but some days I have cracked this a little..

Pps I still notice I like to do things in secret, we were staying at my parents and everyone was going out but I was staying in with dc (I was fine with it) and I instantly felt excited at the thought of being left alone with all the food (separate having had a proper dinner with others)...

Elfin, this is great recovery stuff. the thing is, you need first to stop the binge. you have done it (of course there will still be some, but not many and they will not be lasting, as you do not restrict).
i did the overcoming overeatong program (not ridiculously - I have never carried food around so I could respond to my every wish and whim). their main point in first phase is eat. Until you get that feeling that you believe that restrictions will never come back. Eat exactly what you want and as much as you want. I did not believe it,but after a couple of months (and I admit, quite some kilos gained), I stood in front of christmas feast at my work, there were cheese,chips, chocs, everything - and the thing I craved was cherry tomato. Nothing else.
I think that was my biggest break through moment, even if it was still relatively early in the whole process. But I started then to play a mindgame with myself, before eating - what do I crave? never mind what is on the table, what other ppl offer you - is this the match tocyour appetite? I try to go through things in my head - an orange? a piece of cheese? bread and cheese? Strawberries? i don't know, when I started offering me fresh fruit and maybe tomatoes, imagining how juicy they are, they really got me going. Sometimes I discovered what I want is water, fizzy one. Weird.

i can also relate with huge amounts of veg. I still do it, since I need to sometimes achieve that comfortably full feeling, and vegetables are an easy way to do it without feeling sick afterwards. Gradually though I can see the amounts of food are falling for me, but they are not yet where I think "normal" people are, i.e. you say plateful, I hear pitiful:-)))

Once I have managed to stop eating, I am OK for next 4 hours though. but I do eat a lot.

Chocolate and cake have both lost allure for me. if I feel I want it, I eat also a huge quantity, and then again go without for months. cakewise I do not like luckily ready-made stuff, prefer home-made fruity things, so am now starting to allow myself bake every Saturday again, the things I did for my family when young (apple or rhubarb cake, etc.). freedom from chocolate came gradually, but it came, I think two or three years into not restricting.
But I stopped gaining weight long before, I think a year into the process I settled and have been the same since then. I also lost without effort some of the initial gain, but settling point is higher that my expectations were, to be honest. well, I then adapted the expectations, frankly. I always now come back to this weight, whether I happen to lose some due to exercise /warm summer or sth, or gain some (miscarriage or christmas).

For those struggling with snacking, I think it's worth deciding beforehand how much you're going to eat, and what portion size you need. Elfin could you put a couple of squares (or however much you think would be a reasonable serving) of your lovely chocolate in a nice bowl, rather than taking it straight from the bar? Easier said than done, I realise.

I went full on 'Paleo' for a few months last year (apart from binges of course), and yep, I also bought a food processor and started making weird versions of all the things I really wanted to eat.

I actually don't think it's a bad idea in moderation - lots of veggies, fruit, meat, eggs, nuts. But my focus at the moment is on not restricting at all, so will concentrate on that for now.

Fighting - glad things are going well. And such a good point about the photos. I had to have some taken for work last week, and had a bit of an epiphany. Normally I despise photos of myself and wish I looked different / better in them, but I had much less anxiety as I think I'm coming to terms with the fact that that's just what I look like. Hard to explain, but I'm pleased I didn't spiral into a depressed funk like I normally would. Maybe this is what becoming a grown up feels like!? :)

Cassie, how are you getting on with the dancing? I had a look at that video you posted to and it looked super intense, I might have to give it a go!

Also I had another successful binge-free week, and was fine with a couple of situations that I know would have been disastrous before. I was conscious of urges a couple of times, but was able to separate them from my will to not give in to them. It's a really really good feeling.

I still have lots to improve on - for instance I'm getting hardly any sleep at the moment. I'm pretty busy with work and the DCs, and my training, but still find myself faffing needlessly when I could be going to bed some nights. I can be a lot more disciplined I think, but overall things are moving in the right direction.

Hi Maggie, so glad to hear about your photos being less stressful for you. I think it does sometimes feel like we are growing up[smile.

Your activities when your supposed to be in bed really resonates with me. Even though I'm permanently tired, I seem to avoid going to bed. Do you think it has anything to do with putting of starting a new day. That and the fact it's a long awaited DC free time many days.

I have had a good week, making sure I eat my 3 meals and snacks. I have to remind myself to eat during the day but its definitely made a difference to how I feel again. I wear clothes that are comfortable and feel much more myself, so I pushed it again this week and wore a sleeveless dress. Being comfortable (like we discussed on thread 1&2) was so much nicer!

How are you doing with the sunshine, (hope you have had some even if it just helps gets the washing dry?) I have to remind myself of the article you posted and how I don't have to go out or think I 'should'. I do school runs walking, so I do get out and exercise enough to mean my clothes aren't as tight now.x

So good news all around!
I went to lovely birthday party tonight and did not overeat. Then came home, watched the football and did not eat. there just was not much at birthday I liked, the one small piece of cake I tried I did not enjoy at all....Downed maybe a kilo of cherries and strawberries plus some wine - normally a killer combo for get-home-then-binge - was waiting for it to hit. It did not, interrstingly.

I'm glad to hear so many people are making such great progress it is really encouraging and also a healthy reality check to realise recovery is measured in small steps and also only retrospectively. I have been binge-free for a while, with some small subjective binges at moments of hunger or tiredness. I am still struggling with gain from eating regularly but I saw an ED counsellor last week who advised at least 6 months of normalised eating before attempting controlled weight loss so I am trying to stick to that idea. I am still also very tempted to weigh more often than weekly, often after exercise, but am trying to resist that. I don't know if this has been mentioned in earlier threads but I am struggling with emotions surfacing that were repressed/ displaced by restricting. It can dull emotions. I think Fairburn mentions this. I have also realised I am utterly exhausted a lot of the time. Think this was previously disguised by sugar highs. I sleep a lot but wake tired. Not sure how to deal with this, or with emotional issues ... I am feeling very dissatisfied and unhappy and the realisation that this is not really about food or weight, but things like identity and validation etc (if that doesn't sound totally up my own arse psycho-babble!!) makes it harder to deal with ...

Hi Lou amazing breakthroughs for you too . I'm so glad you saw the counsellor, sounds like good advice. The downside of course is that now you have the harder part of the process to deal with...you are recognising the 'bubble' food/body issues was giving you as protection from all the real stuff going on. Facing that is the real challenge, now that you are eating regularly and so brain and body function better you can start recognising what is going on - and lots of it will be painful . But it's essential. The tiredness you describe is probably tied up with a bit of low level depression, all part if everything you are going through. Be gentle with yourself. I think Fighting will identify strongly with what you are going through.

I had today a textbook BED error day - in the morning only had strawberries and coffee with milk, felt I did not want more. Then took DS to poolside, where only panini and hot dogs were available and I like none, plus tey to be gluten free. by four o'clock I got to restaurant with friends and badly behaving DS, and then even if stuff which I like more actually, salads etc, was available, order flammkuchen (an elsassian version of pizza, with onion and sour cream instead of tomato sauce). As soon as it was in front of me I realised I would have prefered a salad! Ate it anyway, because it felt weird not to (and I had to ask the pizza my son ordered to be packed, so would have been weird if we both had not eaten! ). It was totally funny! I will try to get this lesson that going too hungry is a BED risk and that ordering sth I normally would not touch means I would not enjoy it anyway! Getting home I had to eat more to make sure I also had sth I liked. But I feel OK, because I know why it all happened. No mystery or "why did I do it". Its simple. I ate less than I needed in the morning. then had no lunch. Of course then there is binge after it. Normal.