Can I force my 13 year old to have overnights with me?

[SlateandSteel]

DS 13 is refusing to stay overnight with me in my new house. I’m recently separated from his Dad with my own place and DS is filled with anger towards me. I’ve made a terrible mistake in being the one to leave the family home. He’s point blank refusing to stay overnight at my new house and says he just wants to see me in the day etc. The idea of ex having full custody will destroy me. You hear of mostly mums staying in the family home, I never anticipated DS would be so reluctant to stay overnight. What can I do? At 13 can he legally choose to have no overnights with me?!

I’m devastated and have no idea what to do. Ex says to give him more time. I’m close to just begging my ex to let me back in the family home or to suggest a trial separation because I can’t lose my son.

Having my freedom means nothing if I lose my son. I am absolutely devastated at just giving him tea but not properly living with him.

AIBU to give him no choice in that he has to stay overnight and have a plan? I’ve ruined my life 😢

SlateandSteel - when my Mum left our home when I was a very similar age, she simply wasn't willing to accept my feelings and what I wanted, and she pushed and pushed for my time with her to be what she wanted it to be, when and where she wanted it, rather than being anything within my control. After 7 months I simply stopped seeing her at all - she made me so miserable and wanted to pretend my new life at her house was fantastic, when actually it was awful. It was over two years before I saw her again.

I don't tell you this to cause upset or worry - but to try to get you to see things from your sons point of view. You are seeing him, you are part of his life - even if he isn't wanting that part to be what you want it to be. You keep typing that you wish you'd never left - but you did - you can't now change that so you need to get to grips with the impact that has had on him and work out how to move forward from here, not keep hoping things will suddenly go back to something different.

Unless you can respect his choices you really do risk pushing him further away - he may makes choices about where to live, where to eat and where to sleep that you would prefer he didn't, but he is old enough to do so - you need to work out how to be his Mum when he doesn't live with you.

I wish you both well

It seems so unfair, I guess you left him with dad so he could have as little change as possible, no house move, not moving away from friends etc.
just hope he comes round. it won’t be helping if his father is criticising you, but even if he is not, your son is blaming you.
Cherish the fact that he wants to see you in the day, treat him, buy him nice things if you can. Hope all goes well for you.

I don't think a 13 year old would be rejecting their mother unless they had been manipulated by someone else and told that they could do as they chose, or unless there were some serious breaches on the part of the mother, eg they had been outright abusive. Are you saying that you chose to not see your mother for two years simply because she wanted to parent you? Or because there were other issues?

Who was looking after you during this time, organising the house, helping you with things, buying clothes, etc? Who did you turn to with worries?

The parents had an agreement for shared custody. The father took the boy away on holiday and then came back and did not keep to the agreement about shared custody (and reading between the lines manipulated things while away on holiday).

@SlateandSteel you have said you don't know how to navigate and I hope that Relate give you good advice. As well as making sure everything you say you want is focused on your dc's needs (he needs you as well as his father) please also make sure you explain to them the above, about the father not keeping to the shared custody agreement after taking your son on holiday, and about the shifting goal posts and how dysfunctional communication and everything else has become.

You are absolutely wrong - I had no contact with my Mum for over two years entirely because of the way she treated me after she left my Dad. Not sure why you think a Mother isn't capable of behaving appallingly, but I'm glad for you that's not within your lived experience.

Whilst I'm not sure why you feel it necessary to grill me on how I was brought up - I have two parents, one of whom stayed when my Mum left - and who did the hard work involved in raising three children through their teenage years and still, to this day, has never within my earshot criticised anything my mum did or didn't do throughout my life.

When parents divorce, 13 year olds can, within reason, decide who they live with and how and when they spend time with their other parent - that was true 35 years ago and is true today - the sooner OP can reconcile that and meet her son where he is, the more likely she is to avoid an estrangement.

I hope you don’t mind me asking but in what way did your mum behave appallingly? You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. I know I need to tread carefully and not alienate him further. I adore him and would do anything for him. I have never bad mouthed his Dad but I know for certain that he and my mil bad mouth me in front of DS. Ex says he knows his own mind but when one parent is being repeatedly made out to be a villain and his Dad a victim it is easy for a child’s mind to he poisoned against one parent. I left my ex due to EA, I am the poster who’s DH behaved horribly on Fathers Day and other posts about name calling, threats and his behaviour towards me. So I didn’t leave because I met another man or because I was bored. I know I left for good reason but I do regret it now. Some posters have said it is one of the worst posts they have ever read when I described some of his behaviour.

I would never treat DS badly but it is hard to know how to handle this situation as it was agreed that we would share custody. DS is very angry with me and anything I say for example offering for him to stay, just saying the offer is there with no pressure, he will run straight to his Dad and my MIL telling them that I’m pressuring him again. Then ex will berate me and accuse me of destroying my relationship with DS. Ex also loudly says how I took his car away and how much money I will now get per month (it was our youngest’s mobility car) He would quite literally say anything to DS including laughing with him at how I was offended at the time he threatened to smash me across the face with our sons pram. It is worrying but all I can do is keep showing up for DS and give him time I guess.

I am sorry about the grilling, but you were responding to a thread where the mother had joint custory arrangements in place, which the father then reneged on, where the father has been abusive in the past, quite seriously from the sound of it, and where the mother hasn't behaved appallingly. You mentioned pressure from your mother but I don't think you said she behaved appallingly, unless I misread it. So all in all I was really confused about your post. Hence my questions.

I hope that this makes sense to you now, but I apologise if you thought that my questions were blunt. I am sorry that your mother behaved appallingly, and I am glad that you had a father who stepped up.

I am aware that mothers can behave appallingly, but this mother hasn't, based on these threads.

I'm happy to try to answer - as I said the other day I can read the desperation in your posts and am genuinely trying to offer some helpful thoughts from your son's perspective.

Essentially, rather than prioritise and focus on me, or even on our mother / child relationship - every time I saw her, or spoke with her, became a chance for her to focus on her, how hard her life was, how awful life had been and how unfair the way her separation from Dad panned out was. In adulthood I can understand why she left the home and why she acted like that in those early years, but as a 13 year old I needed my mum to listen to me, accept that my home and family hadn't completely changed like hers had, and give me the space and time to just 'be'.

What I would have said to my Mum had she been able to listen, remember at 13, your child is just at the cusp of starting to pull away from their parents into their young adult-hood - give them the space to do that - even if that means you see them for just a few minutes a week - it would likely look similar if you were still at home , give them the confidence that you are there if they need and give them the respect that understands they are neither to blame for, or responsible for, any of the actions or decisions that you and their Dad have taken.

I'm sorry you've found yourself in this position, particular after what sounds like an awful marriage - beyond anything take ownership of leaving, and the impact (both good and bad) that's had for your son - giving him that respect will hopefully be the basis for a good relationship in the future, even if he never chooses to stay the night in your home.

I know you and his Dad planned 50/50 custody - but was he involved in that plan? If not, think of why you didn't do that - he's old enough to have his views about where and who he lives with listened to - perhaps you'd not be where you are in any of you had asked what he wanted. As many have told you here, you can't force him to sleep in your house, you can't force him to want to visit - ask him what he wants and go from there.

If it can give you some hope, since the third month after she left Dad, I've never stayed the night at my Mum's - but we are close now, have been since my early 20's - it's different to what many may expect a mother - daughter relationship to look like, but it's a rewarding and meaningful relationship in my life.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with my answer to the OP's question. Even with your making shit up reading between the lines comment.

Thanks everyone. I can only keep showing up for him and hope for the best. If I had known how things would have panned out I would never have moved out and would have given up my current house. The whole situation is messy and so upsetting. I do challenge anyone in my position to not be devastated and desperate. Ex says I need to work on my relationship with my son but how can I do that if I’m not seeing him? It’s very upsetting thinking of all that I have lost now, cooking for him, seeing him just before bed, watching a movie and seeing him coming through the door after school or leaving in the morning. It really is so upsetting 😢

But you are seeing him. You’re just not seeing him as much and how you want.

You saw him Monday, you might see him Friday. You will see him Saturday.

You need to use those times as bonding and reassurance but with no pressure if the dad isn’t going to help.

So zero mention on sleeping over or eating your cooking as these are big issues for him right now.

You're wrong that you shouldn't have left.
I know it feels like that and can relate to that feeling. But it is always better to leave. If you were still there or if you went back, in fact especially if you went back, you would be treated worse.

You had to leave. I'm so sorry your son doesn't see this, but that only means you've protected him from the abuse.

You're his mum and children do not reject their parents. I have tried to cut my parents off once when I had enough of their shenanigans. I felt a crushing emptiness and couldn't do it. It's not an easy thing to do at all and obviously it's not what he's doing.

But have not lost him. He is in his feelings and there's possibly an element of feeling closer to his dad as some male bond. I wouldn't know about that as I only have girls but he may feel secure with another man.

Is there any chance his dad is painting you as the villain? I'd put money on it since you say he's emotionally abused you. This is the ultimate emotional abuse.

You should not go back. You have not lost your child. Don’t put up with this. Become the stronger and better person. Give your son time and distance. Keep his room open and get into the mindset that you will give him space.

You really don’t have a choice anyway. I know you will feel great despair right now but don’t let your ex beat you here. The more love and freedom you give to your son the more you are winning. Your ex would like to see you broken perhaps but this will not break you. You are still that boy’s mother and always will be. You will be there until the end of time just as his dad will. Your son always has a home with you and your son will always know that.

Work on thriving in other ways right now and on your attitude towards the whole situation. At the moment your son is staying with his dad. Okay, so use the time to better yourself in all other ways. Be the best person you can be. It's all you can do right now. But do not give up and do not wish you hadn't left.

It's always right to leave. If you hadn't left you would have been modelling to your son that abuse is okay.

The OP has described reasonably severe psychological abuse, and said that there had been threats.
Based on what has been said, the father is abusive.
If the father is abusive, he is likely to also be abusive to the 13 year old too.
No mother in her right mind is going to leave the 13 year old in the full time care of the abusive father. The family needs outside help for the benefit of the 13 year old. Hopefully the OP will get good advice on this from Relate.

This is not "making shit up", what an immature remark. It is based on understanding abuse dynamics (which I don't think you do) and taking what the OP has said at face value.

He’s not abusive to DS, they are very close but DS has begun to model DHs behaviour and speaks to me in a similar way - tells me “shut up woman” and calls me names/sometimes talks in a violent way about what he would like to do to me etc. it’s a worry. I correct him and tell me to treat me with respect. It’s concerning that he’s modelling his dad’s behaviour though. Not all the time and like ex he can also be lovely.

I'm so sorry.

Actually, your ex is being abusive to your child, based on that post.

He's using your son to be abusive to you. How stressful for you.

If you DH encourages or allows this, and doesn't correct your child and model good behaviour, I think that Relate would see this as DH abusing your child. This is not good behaviour in relation to you, but also not at all good for your dc's future, being taught it is ok to talk to women/others like that. Your dc will hear kids at school talking like this, but both parents need to correct it, whereas here it might be that one is implicitly encouraging it.

This is what I meant about fear and placation - your ds is to some extent mirroring but might also be doing what is necessary to keep out of trouble with your DH. How would your DH react if your son started to rebel against him and tell him that his behaviour is unacceptable? Assuming your DH would then start verbal attacks against your son

afaik, professionals think that emotional abuse can very often lead to other types of abuse. I do really think professional advice now is what you need.

if "your" dh, not "you" dh, i meant

I agree with @washitov

you may not like it but you are making shit up.

You can surmise whatever you like.
But the facts are that you don't know
and no court (given the child's age) will make him stay with the OP unless she has proof of what you are alledging.

It is much more likely that the DS likes where he is better due to getting more attention because he doesn't have to compete with his sibling that has a SEND.

The OP shouldn't be forcing a situation which could be even more detrimental to the situation that she currently has.

The family needs outside help for the benefit of the 13 year old. Hopefully the OP will get good advice on this from Relate.

Only if it is of benefit to the child and not to the OP

I wouldn't normally waste time arguing nonsense with someone but I think it has to be said here - it isn't me "making shit up" as you so delightfully put it, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

You are wondering if Relate give advice which is for the benefit of parents over children? No, no they don't.

He hasn't chosen his dad, but he needs the security of the home he is used to. This is not about you or his dad, it's about the safety of four familiar walls. If you were in the familiar house and his dad were in a new house, I doubt he'd want to stay with his dad at the new house.

Don't push him to stay at yours - he will when he's ready. He's only 13 - all of this is scary for him and I hate to say it, but you are making it all about you, and worse for him.

I know that relate will do what is best for the child,

I am making sure that the OP is aware of this, as your posts are biased in there premise.

Relate will not make the DS stay with the OP they will get as much information as possible. Of which we have half, they will not make assumptions and they will take the wants, needs and feelings of the child in to consideration.

They also have no power to force the child to do anything.

The Dad might be putting things in to the child's head but we don't know this, and the child may be wanting to stay in their own home because they are happy and feel secure there, they may also be enjoying the primary source of attention.

Whether you believe that I understand what you want to believe is going on is of no concern to me.

The OP needs to understand that pushing for what she wants may well end up with her pushing her son away.

You split when he’s at one of the worse ages in my opinion. Both older and younger can be easier to navigate (but there’s nothing easy about a parental split, whatever the age of the kids). Why did you think he would find it so easy, given what difficult and hormonal age 13 is? He’s not a little kid any more but neither is he a fully grown adult. You’ve been extremely naive.

I'd have a conversation with school about that, I feel like it's something they'd record as a concern