Can I force my 13 year old to have overnights with me?

[SlateandSteel]

DS 13 is refusing to stay overnight with me in my new house. I’m recently separated from his Dad with my own place and DS is filled with anger towards me. I’ve made a terrible mistake in being the one to leave the family home. He’s point blank refusing to stay overnight at my new house and says he just wants to see me in the day etc. The idea of ex having full custody will destroy me. You hear of mostly mums staying in the family home, I never anticipated DS would be so reluctant to stay overnight. What can I do? At 13 can he legally choose to have no overnights with me?!

I’m devastated and have no idea what to do. Ex says to give him more time. I’m close to just begging my ex to let me back in the family home or to suggest a trial separation because I can’t lose my son.

Having my freedom means nothing if I lose my son. I am absolutely devastated at just giving him tea but not properly living with him.

AIBU to give him no choice in that he has to stay overnight and have a plan? I’ve ruined my life 😢

Can I just ask whether you are basing your advice on personal experiences or professional experience, just out of interest?

Yes 👍

Update - still no progress yet, I’m trying to give him time and not put any pressure on him. The way he talks about “my” house it doesn’t seem like he ever will stay. When my husband (ex) works nights he stays with his grandparents (ex’s parents) which hurts. I gave him the option of staying with me one night when ex was nights (as in the option is there if you want to try) he told ex that I was putting pressure on him again and ex berated me.

He now is saying that the food I’m cooking him is giving him food poisoning (the last 3 or 4 meals I cooked in the new house) He now won’t accept any food or drink here 😔

Bad day, trying not to let it get to me but it does. He just doesn’t want to be here even in the day.

Hes come down today for a movie day and a takeaway, I got lots of sweets for us and planned to order pizza but he won’t eat anything, drink anything or watch anything. He hates it here. I know. It’s not been long.

We have had some nice days out together though and he’s a different boy when he’s out. It’s hard.

I also won’t see him go off to school on his first day back tomorrow which I’m really gutted about 😔

Venting. I know I just need to get a grip probably 😔

He is 13, not 3 - so returning to school is not a big deal.

Stop rushing and pressuring him, stop spoiling him too - there is no need for 'I got lots of sweets for us ' no need just get the amount you would have usually got. Could also be misconstrued as a bribe.

Slowly slowly slowly, it's only just over a month since you started this thread.

I'm sorry. This sounds tough. He sounds very angry with you. Is there any way he/you could have family counselling to work through this?

Thank you. Yes it’s not been long but the way he talks sometimes it feels like he will never stay. I know I need to give him time. I wish I hadn’t been the one to leave the family home. I wish I had never left at all 😔

How are you still saying this?

In the month or so since you first posted, have you looked into therapy or counselling for yourself?

You left for a reason. Because the relationship wasn’t working. You would have been doing your son more damage by staying in a relationship that wasn’t healthy rather than this situation. Yes it may seem like things will never settle right now but they will. Just stop putting so much pressure on him.

@washitov

'I also won’t see him go off to school on his first day back tomorrow which I’m really gutted about'

Nowhere in that sentence did the Op express any suggestion that he needed any support. He does have a parent he lives with, and he does have grandparents that he is choosing to stay with too.

I suggest he is going into his 3rd year at secondary school, not starting it for the first time, nor is he leaving to join a 6th form somewhere nor is he leaving home to go to university.

he is going back to school - which he left 6 weeks ago for the summer holidays.

He can tell her all about new / different teachers / timetables when he next sees her.

OP, stop beating yourself up. He's angry and confused. It's a hard time all around, but you also have one life to live.

Nowhere in that sentence did the Op express any suggestion that he needed any support.

13 year olds generally need a fair bit of supervision and guidance, or at least the ones I know do, and they all want to have a close connection with their parents, and here the mother was the main caregiver until recently. I don't know of any teens who do not need significant support and those who are not getting support are struggling significantly - getting into trouble, not doing well at school, internalising negative feelings etc.

If a child's mother, who had been the main carer until separation from partner, moves out and the child refuses to stay or eat at her house there are clearly some significant problems going on for the child, which means the child needs support. From the main caregiver. Which had been, up to the point of recent separation, the mother. And we are told in previous posts and threads that the father is abusive, and has caused unreasonable problems in relation to the child, so I would say the child's wellbeing is not certain at all just because they are with a parent. At 13 children do not have maturity to be dealing with these things and there are a lot of signals here which indicate that the child is not dealing with things well at all and is not having their needs met. So taking the thread at face value, I think the 13 year old is likely to need support right now.

Yes it’s a very hard time. I think the worry is that I know I’m being bad mouthed by my mother in law and ex to DS. Parental alienation is a concern when it comes to DS, I have never bad mouthed my ex in front of DS, neither have my parents. Ex says he knows his own mind but hasn’t denied that stuff has been said about me. I can only give him time and keep reaching out. It is a concern that they will turn him against me.

Do you know what they say about you? Knowing that might help guide you in relation to decisions to be taken.

I think that in a well functioning relationship, the parents would decide what is best for a 13 year old, which is likely to be slightly more with the mother, and tell the child that is what is happening. Not forcing, but parenting. And both parents would reinforce the messages.

I think that if it was going to be me who left the home in this situation, I would have talked a lot to dc13 about it in advance and joined them in choosing the new home to some extent, and finding out how they felt about everything in advance - I was wondering if you had done that?

I don't think courts view parental alienation kindly, I am not sure what sort of legal or psychological input you have had but it sounds as though getting advice or more advice might be your next step.

I realise that the law says that they will listen to what children of this age say - but at the same time negative influence is not in the child's best interest and 13 year olds are easy to manipulate.

It’s difficult to know exactly what might be being said. My MIL is the type of person to make up false accusations about someone and spread vicious rumours. Even my ex has said that I’m “lucky” and that she could easily destroy me.

Ex probably tells our son that I’ve destroyed the family and ruined everything, that mammy never loved daddy and has thrown away the marriage etc. He tells our son that I’ve taken his car off him (our youngest son’s mobility car) and says don’t worry you’ll be getting £… more per month now and moans about his “shitty” new car. Loads of other stuff too probably. Our son definitely comes out with certain phrases that are coming from his Dad. All I can do is hope that when ex’s anger dies down that things will calm down. It’s the case of him saying “don’t worry son, Daddy won’t make you go anywhere you don’t want to go” and mil would encourage my son to think of my food as poisoning him etc. it’s worrying.

It’s hard to know what is -

Teen defiance
ASD/ADHD
Anger over the separation
ODD
Parental alienation

I was honestly so gutted when ex involved his mother so heavily in our separation. He’s admitted she’s a compulsive liar who is capable of anything. I did beg him for us to sort everything out just the two of us as his parents.

Your ex sounds batshit. So does his mother.
It's a good thing you've left him, OP.

Your son will see the light eventually. Don't lose hope.

I would hope the final para could be true, but I have read on MN posts which indicate otherwise. 13 is a vulnerable year, they have no ability to see things in context as they lack life experience, they copy a lot and mirror behaviour. I think that over time things get harder, not easier, as the shared experiences go.

I think with DC it is important to mend and repair quickly. If you left it hoping that they come round eventually to see your POV, it would get harder and harder, the breach deeper and deeper. Same thing applies here, imho.

That’s what worries me. The fact that I was the one to leave, what is being said about me to my son and the loss of familiar routines such as making him tea every night, watching something with him in the evening and just being a there in the same house. Ex has taken over it all now and it’s heartbreaking. He has an intense relationship with his Dad too.

Seeking opinions please -

When ex works til 8-8.30 I ask him - will I see teen? Ex says don’t involve him - sort it out amongst ourselves. Is this fair or should something be set in stone/for example teen knows he’s at mine for tea every Monday etc.

Only talking about tea visits for now. So that I’m not left “begging” teen. Otherwise I work too(part time) DS has school.

It would be helpful if your Exdh would say to him, I’m working Monday Tuesday Wednesday so your at mums after school for dinner those evenings then I’ll pick you up on my way home.

Will your ex do that no. Only way to force it would be court.

Ex said that would be too much for DS (mine 4pm til 8pm for tea) and that DS would be unlikely to want to do that - so where does that leave me? I think set days are better and ex ideally saying on those days he would pick up DS on his way back.

Not every night either. Only 2-3 times per week, I don’t think it’s unreasonable

Unless you can get a court order your at a stalemate.

Even with a court order there is no saying it would always work but at least then you could say the judge says you need to spend this time and dad could be held in contempt but at 13 your running out of time court wise as well as his old enough to have a say in his own visitation.

Plus court could also push his further away. Unfortunately there is no easy solution when you have a ex who’s clearing loving it.