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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Estranged father wanting parental rights over newborn

232 replies

Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 10:18

A younger relative is due to have a baby this spring. She separated from the father after a very long relationship in the middle of last year and subsequently found out she was pregnant. The father wanted her to abort and stopped all contact when she refused. She wants to bring the baby up as a single parent with minimal paternal input and contact. He has now told her he will be taking paternity leave and wants to co-parent. She doesn't want this. I have suggested she consult a family lawyer ASAP but she doesn't seem to think this is necessary and that she can manage the situation informally. Any ideas as to how I can persuade her that she needs legal advice? The probability that the father wants to exert all his parental rights seems quite high at this point.

OP posts:
MinnieBalloon · 10/02/2025 17:05

Pretty much every single post you’ve made makes me more and more certain this woman is not fit to be a mother.

Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 17:07

MinnieBalloon · 10/02/2025 17:05

Pretty much every single post you’ve made makes me more and more certain this woman is not fit to be a mother.

Look, I'm not very confident (apart from the initial baby care because I think she will be good at that). But I am even less confident about the father.

OP posts:
InALonelyWorld · 10/02/2025 17:16

This is a very odd thread. No new mother, especially a lone parent wants to take a newborn backpacking around another continent. I couldn't even do housework for weeks, never mind trot around the globe with friends and a newborn in toe. The fact that this is her plan clearly does not come across like she will be good mother putting her CHILDS needs first. Especially when she plans to delay the father's paternal rights to stop her achieving that. Regardless of what you think of this man, he isn't the one in the wrong here, so a judge would not deny him reasonable access when it's only because the mother is being difficult so she can get her own way.

It's likely she wouldn't be able to leave the country with court hearings pending anyways and if she does, it's possible the dad could be allowed to have it put in any order to prevent her from ever leaving the country with the baby without permission.

It's mother's like this who make it harder for us who actually need those parental rights denied by a judge to be successful in order to protect our children from the risk their fathers pose.

Stravaig · 10/02/2025 17:18

Pragmatically, he is giving a better impression than she is regarding their child.

They split up, then she discovered she's pregnant. He expressed a preference for abortion so as not to be father or co-parent with an ex; as he is perfectly entitled to. She overrode that; as she is perfectly entitled to (legally, although I am more equivocal about the ethics or wisdom of forcing parenthood on another person).

He has come to terms with what is happening anyway, and is stepping up to be a father: good, this is in the best interests of their child. She is now being petty, and purposefully obstructive to his involvement: bad, this is not in the best interests of their child.

Who knows, maybe he will be prove to be the more responsible parent, and ultimately end up with primary custody? Although from what you hint, perhaps not.

Let's hope someone provides this child with a stable and loving home.

We really need to licence for parenthood.

MissDoubleU · 10/02/2025 17:18

Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 17:07

Look, I'm not very confident (apart from the initial baby care because I think she will be good at that). But I am even less confident about the father.

You seem more concerned about the father preventing the mother from running away for a year to backpack across South America with a newborn than the fact the mother is planning to run away for a year to backpack across South America with a newborn…

QuantumPanic · 10/02/2025 17:22

Not passing judgment on who should/shouldn't have custody/parental rights, but the backpacking thing is a non issue imo. I know one couple who had planned to take a two year sabbatical and travel the world - she unexpectedly got pregnant. They went anyway (left when the baby was about a month old) and had a great time. I've met another family who were cycling the world. Two of their kids were born 'on the road'. People have kids in all sorts of environments; I believe babies are even born in South America.

Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 17:23

Stravaig · 10/02/2025 17:18

Pragmatically, he is giving a better impression than she is regarding their child.

They split up, then she discovered she's pregnant. He expressed a preference for abortion so as not to be father or co-parent with an ex; as he is perfectly entitled to. She overrode that; as she is perfectly entitled to (legally, although I am more equivocal about the ethics or wisdom of forcing parenthood on another person).

He has come to terms with what is happening anyway, and is stepping up to be a father: good, this is in the best interests of their child. She is now being petty, and purposefully obstructive to his involvement: bad, this is not in the best interests of their child.

Who knows, maybe he will be prove to be the more responsible parent, and ultimately end up with primary custody? Although from what you hint, perhaps not.

Let's hope someone provides this child with a stable and loving home.

We really need to licence for parenthood.

He isn't giving any impression because there are far fewer details about him on the thread.

OP posts:
Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 17:24

QuantumPanic · 10/02/2025 17:22

Not passing judgment on who should/shouldn't have custody/parental rights, but the backpacking thing is a non issue imo. I know one couple who had planned to take a two year sabbatical and travel the world - she unexpectedly got pregnant. They went anyway (left when the baby was about a month old) and had a great time. I've met another family who were cycling the world. Two of their kids were born 'on the road'. People have kids in all sorts of environments; I believe babies are even born in South America.

It's not a non issue legally: the father would be well within his rights to prevent it.

OP posts:
Happyhippos123 · 10/02/2025 17:35

OP, have you got any useful info from replies to encourage your relative to get legal advice? Thinking that she'll call the shots is not at all realistic, if her ex wants to be involved, the courts will give him access.

The mother to be sounds like she's living in a bit of a fantasy eg thinks she can bring a baby on a group backpacking trip with no partner.

You think that the father to be would make a very poor father, I'm imagine drug use, violent or cohersive control.

Could she reconsider going to stay with her parents for the birth. It doesn't mean that the baby will never have a relationship with the baby, but would give her space from him if this is in the baby's interest. There must be something she can do in her home country.

InALonelyWorld · 10/02/2025 17:42

QuantumPanic · 10/02/2025 17:22

Not passing judgment on who should/shouldn't have custody/parental rights, but the backpacking thing is a non issue imo. I know one couple who had planned to take a two year sabbatical and travel the world - she unexpectedly got pregnant. They went anyway (left when the baby was about a month old) and had a great time. I've met another family who were cycling the world. Two of their kids were born 'on the road'. People have kids in all sorts of environments; I believe babies are even born in South America.

I agree under normal circumstances and with 2 parents or even family members tagging along on that for support but the OP differs to your examples of that being okay because BOTH parents have not consent to this... one hasn't even got a say or any consideration in the plan by the sounds of things.

IkeaJesusChrist · 10/02/2025 17:44

This sounds like a car crash.

OP is blatantly trying to insinuate that the father isn't great but in my opinion the mother is in for a shock.

xRobin · 10/02/2025 17:54

You’re right, we barely know any information on the father.
But from what you’ve said about the mother, my god that baby needs help already.
If she’s as bad as she’s coming across on here (sounds like an Instagram influencer wannabe) then best case scenario, the Dad stops her from taking baby abroad and he steps up.
If he’s as bad as she is, it won’t be long until Social Services involve themselves.

Wavescrashingonthebeach · 10/02/2025 18:01

I haven't got time to read full thread- skimmed op updates - but what i will say is that whatever the parents of this baby are saying now will all go out the window when baby is born. I had a similar situation with my dc dad as we weren't together when we met - although not as extreme as this- he never asked me to abort and I had no plans to travel but there was alot of talk of court, custody, overnights etc etc. None of it happened, when the baby is born and the bombshell is dropped in your life you realise that you have to act like adults, and if he's as immature as you say then once he holds a floppy newborn in his hands he will crap his pants and not be pushing for overnights!!
They need to just be amicable and civil for the baby's sake- they created it so they have a duty of care.
Doubt the Mum will go travelling.
House share could work but obviously if health visitors get any wind of drug / alcohol misuse at the property she will have to move somewhere suitable.

MariaMcGeady · 10/02/2025 18:08

A mother automatically attains Parental Responsibility on the birth of her child. since legislation in or around 2014, a man attains PR by being married to the mother at the time of the birth, or by his name being on the birth certificate. If neither applies, he would have to apply to family court for PR. The court may order a paternity test.

If he succeeds in attaining PR, he will be entitled to 'all the rights, duties, powers, responsibilities and authority which by law a parent of a child has in relation to the child and his property.' For example, a right to decide matters of religion, schooling, health care etc.

Since further legislation in 2015, PR also includes a right of involvement in a child's life, which the law states improves a child's welfare 'unless shown otherwise'. The onus to 'show otherwise' e.g. that a parent poses a risk to the child, is on the other parent to prove at family court to limit or stop contact.

Because there is a presumption in primary legislation that a child's welfare is improved by having both parents involved in a child's life, there is an unwritten counter assumption that a parent who stops the involvement of the other parent, without due cause, is being emotionally abusive towards the child. This is often known as parental alienation or more recently as alienating behaviours.

Despite the presumption of involvement in a child's life, if they can't reach an agreement on contact (known as child arrangements), the father would have to issue proceedings at family court for PR/ child arrangements, which would need to be served on the other party.

Family law, particularly if your daughter was the victim of domestic or sexual abuse by the father, is complicated and I would advise your daughter to seek advice from a qualified family lawyer.

Hope this helps

Msmoonpie · 10/02/2025 18:16

“The father is not an exemplary human”

Well he isn’t required to be. Plenty of not great people are parents and have access to their children.

For what it’s worth the mother doesn’t sound like she is either.

Some real fathers for justice fodder here.

Wavescrashingonthebeach · 10/02/2025 18:21

MariaMcGeady · 10/02/2025 18:08

A mother automatically attains Parental Responsibility on the birth of her child. since legislation in or around 2014, a man attains PR by being married to the mother at the time of the birth, or by his name being on the birth certificate. If neither applies, he would have to apply to family court for PR. The court may order a paternity test.

If he succeeds in attaining PR, he will be entitled to 'all the rights, duties, powers, responsibilities and authority which by law a parent of a child has in relation to the child and his property.' For example, a right to decide matters of religion, schooling, health care etc.

Since further legislation in 2015, PR also includes a right of involvement in a child's life, which the law states improves a child's welfare 'unless shown otherwise'. The onus to 'show otherwise' e.g. that a parent poses a risk to the child, is on the other parent to prove at family court to limit or stop contact.

Because there is a presumption in primary legislation that a child's welfare is improved by having both parents involved in a child's life, there is an unwritten counter assumption that a parent who stops the involvement of the other parent, without due cause, is being emotionally abusive towards the child. This is often known as parental alienation or more recently as alienating behaviours.

Despite the presumption of involvement in a child's life, if they can't reach an agreement on contact (known as child arrangements), the father would have to issue proceedings at family court for PR/ child arrangements, which would need to be served on the other party.

Family law, particularly if your daughter was the victim of domestic or sexual abuse by the father, is complicated and I would advise your daughter to seek advice from a qualified family lawyer.

Hope this helps

Excellent post. When things were bad when I was pregnant and I was terrified this man I barely knew was going to have my baby 50/50 I briefly considered not putting him on the birth cert. Then after a long hard think decided it would not be fair, and the birth cert should reflect the facts, and only for the most extreme of circumstances do you not put them on. I had a very stressful time over it all but in the end we did what was right.
And must have worked as we have reconciled and 5 years down the line are expecting our 3rd!!!

Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 18:26

Happyhippos123 · 10/02/2025 17:35

OP, have you got any useful info from replies to encourage your relative to get legal advice? Thinking that she'll call the shots is not at all realistic, if her ex wants to be involved, the courts will give him access.

The mother to be sounds like she's living in a bit of a fantasy eg thinks she can bring a baby on a group backpacking trip with no partner.

You think that the father to be would make a very poor father, I'm imagine drug use, violent or cohersive control.

Could she reconsider going to stay with her parents for the birth. It doesn't mean that the baby will never have a relationship with the baby, but would give her space from him if this is in the baby's interest. There must be something she can do in her home country.

Yes, the thread has been very useful when composing my thoughts and rehearsing what to say, which has been said!

OP posts:
Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 18:28

Happyhippos123 · 10/02/2025 17:35

OP, have you got any useful info from replies to encourage your relative to get legal advice? Thinking that she'll call the shots is not at all realistic, if her ex wants to be involved, the courts will give him access.

The mother to be sounds like she's living in a bit of a fantasy eg thinks she can bring a baby on a group backpacking trip with no partner.

You think that the father to be would make a very poor father, I'm imagine drug use, violent or cohersive control.

Could she reconsider going to stay with her parents for the birth. It doesn't mean that the baby will never have a relationship with the baby, but would give her space from him if this is in the baby's interest. There must be something she can do in her home country.

Everyone concerned is British (albeit dual nationals) bar the father. This relative's home country is just as much the UK as the country she was brought up in where her parents no longer live.

OP posts:
Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 18:29

MariaMcGeady · 10/02/2025 18:08

A mother automatically attains Parental Responsibility on the birth of her child. since legislation in or around 2014, a man attains PR by being married to the mother at the time of the birth, or by his name being on the birth certificate. If neither applies, he would have to apply to family court for PR. The court may order a paternity test.

If he succeeds in attaining PR, he will be entitled to 'all the rights, duties, powers, responsibilities and authority which by law a parent of a child has in relation to the child and his property.' For example, a right to decide matters of religion, schooling, health care etc.

Since further legislation in 2015, PR also includes a right of involvement in a child's life, which the law states improves a child's welfare 'unless shown otherwise'. The onus to 'show otherwise' e.g. that a parent poses a risk to the child, is on the other parent to prove at family court to limit or stop contact.

Because there is a presumption in primary legislation that a child's welfare is improved by having both parents involved in a child's life, there is an unwritten counter assumption that a parent who stops the involvement of the other parent, without due cause, is being emotionally abusive towards the child. This is often known as parental alienation or more recently as alienating behaviours.

Despite the presumption of involvement in a child's life, if they can't reach an agreement on contact (known as child arrangements), the father would have to issue proceedings at family court for PR/ child arrangements, which would need to be served on the other party.

Family law, particularly if your daughter was the victim of domestic or sexual abuse by the father, is complicated and I would advise your daughter to seek advice from a qualified family lawyer.

Hope this helps

This is not my daughter, nor even my niece.

OP posts:
PandaTime · 10/02/2025 18:41

The reality is your relative only has full control over her baby while it is still in her body. Once it is born, and if the father wants to be involved, she will have to share. If she refuses to, the law can make her. This is why it is very important to consider who you have children with. If your relative thinks she can have this baby and simply refuse to let the baby's father have any say, she's in for a shock. She isn't listening to you now about seeking legal advice, but she will when she find out she won't get her way.

ChonkyRabbit · 10/02/2025 23:14

Ceramiq · 10/02/2025 15:58

Please don't take sides based on the very incomplete information on this thread about the father. My concern is, understandably, for my female relative and her baby and therefore I have given more information about her because she is the one upon whom I need to impress that she needs better information (from a lawyer or similar) about her parental rights and responsibilities before negotiating with the father.

The father is absolutely not an exemplary human.

Our concern is, understandably, for the baby. And nothing you've said suggests it's in the baby's best interests for the mother to get her own way here.

Waterweight · 11/02/2025 02:49

ButIToldYouSoooo · 10/02/2025 14:16

How does she sound terrible? Because refusing to abort her child despite the pressure from him to do so doesn't make her terrible. It makes him terrible.

Him refusing to have anything to do with her because she refused to abort doesn't make her terrible. It makes him terrible.

Her deciding to go it alone as a single parent after his decision to bail out doesn't make her terrible. It makes him terrible.

It sounds like he now just wants paternity leave and she has every reason not to trust his motives. That doesn't make her terrible. It makes her rightfully concerned about his true intentions and motives.

He can't get access without her in the early days - even if he takes "paternity leave" he has no rights until the child is capable of being separated from her for a few hours/1 night a week ect.
If she actual looked into the legalities (before the baby is born) she would know that & have a leg to stand on in opting for 'privacy'/person time to recover

& As "dealing with this herself" while accusing him of being abusive & dismissing the fact that he WILL have legal rights to gain access is a recipe for disaster...

Itsrainingagaintoday · 11/02/2025 09:33

I'd be interested to know how old mum is. With a mortgage over 18, but she still sounds young and very naive.
I doubt very nice the friends will love the idea of a newborn backpacking with them though. Even with the couples mentioned up thread babies and young kids change the dynamic of these trips.
Hopefully that aspect won't go ahead.

Ceramiq · 11/02/2025 09:39

Itsrainingagaintoday · 11/02/2025 09:33

I'd be interested to know how old mum is. With a mortgage over 18, but she still sounds young and very naive.
I doubt very nice the friends will love the idea of a newborn backpacking with them though. Even with the couples mentioned up thread babies and young kids change the dynamic of these trips.
Hopefully that aspect won't go ahead.

She's in her mid-30s.

OP posts:
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