Estranged father wanting parental rights over newborn

[Ceramiq]

A younger relative is due to have a baby this spring. She separated from the father after a very long relationship in the middle of last year and subsequently found out she was pregnant. The father wanted her to abort and stopped all contact when she refused. She wants to bring the baby up as a single parent with minimal paternal input and contact. He has now told her he will be taking paternity leave and wants to co-parent. She doesn't want this. I have suggested she consult a family lawyer ASAP but she doesn't seem to think this is necessary and that she can manage the situation informally. Any ideas as to how I can persuade her that she needs legal advice? The probability that the father wants to exert all his parental rights seems quite high at this point.

Honestly I think you’re into a very tenuous argument when you’re arguing that a woman who still lives in a house share and is planning on taking a newborn travelling with her and her mates is going to be a great parent, but yet a man who just took some time to come round to the idea is going to be a bad one and is irrelevant.

Thankfully the courts don’t give a fuck about your far fetched studies on the irrelevance of dad’s, her trying to deny access so she can go travelling with a newborn isn’t going to look great to a judge and if you want to help her then the way to help her is to tell her exactly that- time for her to grow up.

The father lives in a rented room.

What’s your point? Neither of them have a perfect set up for a baby coming home, but only one of them is actively trying to:

1. Exclude the other parent, and
2. Take the baby out of the country on what is essentially a girls holiday travelling, without the other parent’s consent

There is a bad guy in this situation, but it’s not dad.

but he thinks that a newborn shouldn't be schlepped round S America in a rucksack? So I think it's one-nil to him on sensibleness so far........

This is a tricky situation as he hasn’t wasn’t any involvement, He may just be threatening to show he is serious. She could leave his name off the birth certificate but if she would like financial input from him this may not be wise. Plus in the future she may appreciate being able to share parenting. Courts as others have said will put the child’s needs first.

So does the mother...

Please don't take sides based on the very incomplete information on this thread about the father. My concern is, understandably, for my female relative and her baby and therefore I have given more information about her because she is the one upon whom I need to impress that she needs better information (from a lawyer or similar) about her parental rights and responsibilities before negotiating with the father.

The father is absolutely not an exemplary human.

No, she owns half a house in which three couples have been living. Her ex boyfriend moved out a few months ago.

The dad’s rights start when the child born so he’s not estranged and there’s no legal or moral repercussions of asking for an abortion. He’s accepted that it’s her body her choice which is a pragmatic and fair approach to take. Based on mum’s actions, I assume that it was a nasty breakup so expecting help from dad is unrealistic and unfair.

If she wants to be able to travel with the baby overseas to see family then organising a Child Arrangement Order quickly will help clarify things for mum and dad and she won’t have the hassle of needing dad’s permission for short trips overseas.

He can stop her going abroad for long periods without permission

I expect she will be a consistent and reliable new mother. She is immature and naive but also very keen to be a mother and full of very reasonable ideas for the life she is going to lead with her baby.

Does backpacking around South America with a baby fit into this consistency and reliableness??

Also if she already owns half a house (who owns the other half?) why is she now planning on moving from this house-share arrangement to another house-share/communal living arrangement?

Surely part of her reasonable ideas for bringing up this baby should be to stay where she is and make a settled start in life for her child?

Also, perhaps I missed it in all the talk of countries and extended families and parents living half a world away, but it this relative actually in the UK?

Yes, in UK.

The couple she co owns with wish to buy her out and own the house outright and another married couple with children wish to buy a house with her.

I'm not against the father having access: that is his paternal right and he needs to learn to be a parent. However, the child's attachment needs would not be undermined if it didn't meet its father for a few months.

and what would be the advantage of the baby not access their father for the first few weeks of life?

Unless the parent is a safeguarding risk to the child then there isn't a reason to keep the child away from them

OP you seem to be making a lot of judgement calls in your attitude to this - its really not your call

So, actually, she is selling half a house after which she will have the monetary equivalent of half a house, which she will easily blow (or at least significantly diminish) in a few weeks of travelling South America, when any normal parent would be using their position to create a settled and safe home for their child.

You seem fixated on the fact that the father isn't "exemplary". When it comes down to it, there won't be a competition to prove who is the better parent. They will decide that either one of them, both of them or neither of them are a safe parent.

If it's both of them, he'll get equal rights and responsibilities and if he has any sense he will do everything in his power to stop the South America trip.

If it's one of them, I doubt it will be her, based on the information you've given.

If it's neither of them then it might be an idea to start clearing out your spare room.

Lots of women backtrack. Every single day there's a woman who initially iis terrified of the idea of being pregnant, then after some careful thinking/advice/emotional support decides no keep the pregnancy instead. Some even go as far as attemptung to abort unsuccessfully, give birth and love their child. According to @Ceramiq these women should have their parental rights taken away from them🤨.

“Paint her as”…..

I mean, if she really thinks this is the best idea, then I despair. By all means take baby on holiday but backpacking FFS.

The father wouldn’t be painting her as an irresponsible parent - she IS an irresponsible parent considering this! She should not be trying to obstruct his parental rights, he has given her no legitimate reason for this. She’s also wanting to rush out the country with baby as soon as they’re born, denying him access even more. She wants to prevent him from bonding with his newborn baby for the first year? Just so she gets her own way..?

I couldn’t support this at all.

Your opinion on this doesn’t matter nearly as much as the fathers. The father wants to be involved and no one has any right to deny him this.

If she is indeed a homeowner with the means to fund extensive travel, she can very well afford some legal advice. If she chooses not to seek legal advice, then perhaps she's not as responsible as you seem to think.

I think she's trying to hurt him he did block her when she first approached him about her pregnancy. I don't blame her for feeling like that. She needs time to adjust and forgive. Trust me as soon as baby comes she will want him involved.

She's on glue if she thinks that taking a newborn backpacking in high crime rate countries that have malaria-bearing mosquitos is even remotely a good idea.

She isn't selling her house to go travelling - she's selling her house to buy another house.

Honestly I would be wary of a man whose response to being told no over an abortion is to block and run what will he do when parenting gets harder? The adult thing would have been to ask for time and space

The people insisting that fathers Must! Have! Access! from day one otherwise the child will be psychologically damaged might want to look up a Chinese tribe called the Mosuo. Mothers live with their mothers and siblings and children are raised by their mothers, grandmothers, maternal aunts, and maternal uncles.

Also, whether it's bad for the child is irrelevant because what is relevant is the law and how the mother resisting the father's attempts to see his child will make her look bad to the courts.

Your relative should get legal advice, but the starting point is 50/50. Obviously if baby is breastfed, that won’t kick in yet, but she would need to meet a very high threshold to deny him that access.

Yes, he can refuse to allow her to take his child abroad, in exactly the same way as she has the right to stop him doing the same.

The whole saga has instagram stamped over it as far as the back packing is concerned. Naive and rather silly imo.
He might be a total waste of space, he might step up to the challenge of parenting. BUT he needs a chance to prove himself then if he falls on his arse, then everyone knows where they stand.