ExH threatening to call police

[RBush22]

I am due to move out with my 2 children next week, 1 hour drive away to my mum's house. I have made this known to exH since September, we went to mediation in October only for it to stall as mediator backed my plan and his was totally unreasonable. I then got a solicitor who has written him 2 letters explaining my move and trying to get him to agree - he/his solicitor has disagreed to everything giving no reasons as to why. My solicitor has told me I am not "relocating" so I don't need his permission.

He never applied for a prohibited steps order (PSO) and the latest letter from his solicitor today is that if I do move with the children, exH will phone the police immediately and he will apply to the court urgently (to get them returned).

I am still shaking - is this just fear mongering? Has this happened to anyone?

The Police won't knock on your door. He can't tell them you are missing as he knows, or will know, full well where you are. Even if they did knock, all you'd have to do is explain the background and show them your solicitors letters.

Why aren't you saying if the children will change schools or not OP?

One isn’t in nursery yet and the other will need to change nursery but my solicitor has advised on this and I’ll apply to the court asap for this since he doesn’t want to agree to anything. The police was my worry!!

OP He's not necessarily being controlling or unreasonable here. You need his consent to move nursery, he wants his children closer, he's refusing to consent.

You likely won't get a court order quickly, it's not actually an emergency, so your child will have a long commute until you get that. Are you prepared for this?

You also might struggle to argue it's no distance for him to see his children, but the commute to the old nursery is a struggle for you. Clearly it's one or the other, but it can't be both "no distance" and "way too far" at the same time, for the same children.

Well the whole point here is that he never applied for a PSO to stop my move. The concept of disagreeing to everything and then threatening the police when he could’ve actually tried to stop me through the courts seems controlling and unreasonable. I’ve attempted to agree many many times but he’s refusing to accept that the relationship is over and the children live with me which they have to on legal grounds. I now have to apply to the court for the nursery change but not the move. I don’t have a court order from him so I can carry on- I just don’t want to face police officers on Boxing Day as he’s frantically trying to use the little control he has left…..

The courts likely would not have approved of him seeking a PSO to stop you moving that distance (and he was probably told this) nor you seeking one to change nurseries (have you asked your solicitor about timings and risks?).

The family courts are inundated with cases where kids are at immediate risk and need to be removed from their homes etc and this could look like unreasonable behaviour by both of you taking a minor dispute to court because you're both incapable of compromise.

The police aren't your issue, the nursery is, but it's not clear you've considered it through or appreciated the risk that a court might view you as the person behaving unreasonably here.

I really feel for him. No way would I letter my DP do this. If he wanted to move he can but he wouldn’t take my kids with him.

@BTTH You argue that it can't be both "no distance" and "way too far" at the same time, for the same children, however, there's a huge difference between expecting the op to travel to the original nursery twice a day for five days each week and the children's father travelling see his children one day during the week and every other weekend, which seems to be the usual contact arrangement.

@RBush22 your instinctive response that you'd never agree to your children moving 1 hour / 12 miles away from you is understandable but at some point people have to be realistic so if it takes two salaries to live in the original area and there is, therefore, no possibility of the op funding a rental by herself what is the op supposed to do? Courts understand the limitations of budgetary restrictions and won't order the op to live in an an area she can't afford. Nor will they be concerned about a 12 mile move.

The police don't have enough time to deal with actual crimes so I think you're worrying about nothing in terms of them turning up. He'll be told it's a civil matter.

I'm not saying it's a situation anyone would chose, I'm pointing out that going to court is not risk free and OP has not said her ex is happy with seeing the kids twice a week, she's said he's unhappy with it.

So what if he says he has to make the journey every day to see them?

What if he says they can stay with him a couple of nights a week and he'll bring them to nursery?

I was merely pointing out the OP doesn't appear to appreciate that a) getting a SIO may not be straight forward and b) once she initiated court action the incremental cost to him of expanding it to seek shared custody might make that a risk, but there's certainly a latent risk that the courts view her as unreasonable and refuse to approve the change in nursery. The fact she thinks him not seeking a PSO evidences he's unreasonable when the courts could view it as evidence he's reasonable makes me fear she's not understanding the risks here.

His solicitor will write whatever he wants. He's their client and paying them. So what if the police knock on the door. They can't do anything. You have parental responsibility. You need a child arrangement order because he could refuse to return the kids during his contact because he also has parental responsibility. Your ex is trying your intimidate you. He won't get a prohibited steps order. Your not moving to Outer Mongolia you are staying in London.

His solicitor will write whatever he wants. He's their client and paying them

Not so! The legal profession is regulated with code of conduct and there is additional conduct guidelines for family cases. Admittedly poor behaviour isn't flagged enough to the regulatory body but solicitors can face being removed from legal register for breaking code

It sounds more to me that he's just trying to be difficult rather than being concerned about how far away his kids are moving- especially if he's just disagreeing with everything and not engaging with mediation.

However if I were you I'd be prepared to bring the kids to him given you've moved away

was about to say the same thing*, just because the solicitor has put that in the letter doesn’t actually mean the solicitor believes what they are writing, they’re just doing as their client is instructing… it’s rubbish and panic inducing BUT repeat this to yourself a hopefully it will help with being the worry down a little until you can get professional advice.

*think I read it in Laura Nassers divorce guide.

@BTTH I don’t actually disagree with you – litigation of any kind is always a risk. Never the less, the Op has information which will help narrow the possible out comes. 1. She knows that her ex cannot afford to continue to live in the house. If he moves, as he must do, then any argument that the child should continue in the current nursery is seriously weakened. 2. She knows what job he does. Perhaps it’s not flexible, perhaps he can’t guarantee to be able to leave dead on time, that makes being responsible for two young children 2 1/2 days of the working week difficult if not impossible. 3. The Op also knows whether her ex would genuinely want to have shared residency or if it would be his worst nightmare. Her lawyer can't guarantee any particular out come but he can advice on the basis of the above information,

Finally, the Op should not agree to do all the driving for contact out of some sense of guilt for moving away. There's no rule that the parent who moves away does the driving and in this case both parents are moving away from the family home. If the Op makes such a concession she'll be stuck with the driving for ever.

OP I'm really worried for your safety. Can you move earlier without telling him about it in advance? It's really not great that he knows you are leaving and when , and with a gap in-between.

Have you had any support from women's aid? They may be able to advise on leaving safely and on the issue of his threats to call the police.

Personally I'd call the non emergency number the day before you leave. Ask they log that he is controlling and you will be leaving, that he has your new address and has made threats etc. That way if he does call, they will already have the background info. The local police will also have a department that deals with controlling/abusive/coercive relationships and it may be worth getting their info too.

Your ex can call the police all he likes, but if you have parental responsibility and there is no court order, it's not a criminal matter so not a police matter. The most they'll do is a welfare check but can't get involved other than that. It's a civil matter so he'll need to make a family court application.

Some posters are saying that the OP is moving her kids unilaterally … but she has been through mediation (his plan was unworkable, hers reasonable) and written to him outlining her plan (he’s objected to everything but given no reasons why). As she has given months to allow him to explain his concerns or come up with an alternative and he hasn’t done so she is right to move forward to the next step.

Thank you - exactly. And spent thousands of pounds in the process and achieved nothing!

Anyone know if I need to apply for a specific issue order immediately for the change of nursery point, or if I can leave it for a month or 2? Solicitor will probably tell me to do it asap, but I worry about legal fees. New school has accepted DD without exH signature from January. But he is still doing his disagreeing to everything... even though I've picked the most wonderful school (in my opinion).

I'd do it immediately. I'd get both kids in school / nursery and settled. I'd make sure the are registered with doctors, dentist,opticians ect ASAP.

Thank you - have you been through this already? Do I have no option but to pay for a solicitor to do this. I am beginning to struggle with the costs of all of this - it's obviously worth it, but I'd rather spend this money on my children/s education....

@RBush22 does he pay for nursery or towards it?

To me - it’s doing what is best for the child and stopping excessive travelling across London and helping them create friendships and connections to the local area.

has he ever been involved in selecting and choosing nurseries etc for his children? Has he ever been the main point of contact and asministrator for everything? No? Then it’s not on him.

he can still access his children if he makes arrangements. Instead he’s playing silly buggers.

Id cancel the nursery place and move to a local one. You’ve made all reasonable attempts to work with the non resident parent but you have to put children and your needs first.

There's currently a thread on Mumsnet where posters are regaling each other with tales of threats their exs have levied against them.

The OP of that thread was advised by a therapist to respond to her exH's threats with the phrase - "Let me know how that goes".

I recommend you try that.

Your solicitor has advised you that you can move, so go ahead and move.

Don't let your ex make you afraid. He doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Probably annoyed, like I do with my ex for moving an hour away. Likewise I feel annoyed by him leaving them on devices all day, feeding them takeaways half of the weekend he has with them every second week and leaving 100 percent of the children’s life admin to me.

However all of these things fall within what the law regards as acceptable for a parent to do, so there is not much to be done but feel annoyed about it. Separation means not having to take your ex-partner’s feelings into account very much if at all.