Can I be forced into working full time?

[naturalbaby]

I work part time/job share but 12hr shifts on an 8 day rota.

We have 3 teenagers with hectic schedules and it's impossible for 1 parent to manage alone for more than a few days - we agreed to be amicable and flexible and have very little/no childcare support. The reason I'm part time is because of the logistics of the kids schedules, it was very difficult for their dad to manage when I worked full time. He's now saying I'll have to work full time or get a different job. I'm on UC so this makes up for my loss of earnings.
Can I be forced to change my work in the next few months for the financial agreement??
We have a joint mediation session soon and I don't want to waste time so want to make it as efficient as possible so that we can finalise the divorce asap.

I would imagine that decisions were made about career and household as if the OP were in a couple though, because that is how couples behave. They don’t behave like single parents.

What often happens and this is not nonsense is that the way maternity and paternity leave are structured sets up a dynamic where the woman takes up to a year away from work and the man takes two weeks. And if there are two or three children, then the impact is that the woman takes two or three years out of her job whilst the man takes four or six weeks. And this often sets up the dynamic of the mother as the default parent because she has already sacrificed elements of her career to have children. Etc.

His career might not have been different if the OP worked full time but it may well have been different if he had taken the equivalent of two to three maternity leaves and done the nightwakings and days off sick and doctor and dentist appointment and organised the parties and buying the school uniform and all those things before you get to extracurricular activities. It’s those things which make the difference to one’s career and if he was not doing them when the OP didn’t work, it is unlikely he would have started if she did given he is not willing to change now. So if OP had worked full-time, she would have done all of the above and her job - which is what single parents do. But - to come back to my starting point - she was not a single parent.

She is now. But that is a different point.

Let’s not pretend that structural inequalities in parenting which impact women do not exist.

He changed jobs and moved every few years to climb the ladder, we moved with him as a family which meant I didn't have long to settle in a new place and look after the kids and earn a living. As a result he can (and did) walk into a job earning £60k and I can't. I also have a job I love but can't realistically do until retirement so will have to start over at some point in the future.

We looked at the overall marital pot and 3 kids who were talking about university and agreed to divorce amicably so money could support them at university rather than go to solicitors. We're now revising that and looking at apprenticeships and other options.

In my line of work 2-3 years out would make barely any difference at all. Which industries do you think it would?

£60k doesn't sound like a high enough salary to be moving around for?

Could be something like military. Taking the less desirable postings to climb.

Ultimately OP it sounds like your job is not feasible given your situation now. You need to start thinking like a single parent and not relying on him. He doesn't need to arrange his life around you now or vice versa so your job isn't appropriate for your circumstances. Many single parents have to make large career sacrifices, unfortunately.

I think you are conflating different issues, which the court will not consider to be related. You need proper legal advice regarding what share of assets should be reasonable to expect in your circumstances. A small investment in legal advice - even if you then attempt to reach an amicable agreement with him without court - is essential so that you don't agree to something disadvantageous to you.

But in terms of your life after that, you must accept that you must not be reliant on him anymore. Ideally, make your life manageable so that even if he never sees the children or pays a penny you can manage fine. And as an absolute minimum you need to ensure you can agree a reasonable fixed schedule of contact times and that you are not expecting any assistance from him during your time. If he does stick to being amicable and there is flexibility to occassionally both swap dates ad hoc sometimes to help each other or the children then great, but you absolutely cannot rely on this being the case. You must be realistic.

It is possible to find work that fits around being available for children, with regular hours/ flexibility. It is possible to maintain a nice home for children without a partner/ ex-partner contributing to it. It is possible for children still to participate in extra-curriculars but this requires careful planning around work hours/ reciprocal arrangements with other parents/ hiring a nanny or au pair etc. Yes, as a single parent that means your career is more limited and your costs are higher. Yes it's unfair, particularly given the tax system then charges us more tax on the same household income as a couple, on top of the higher inherent childcare costs, which is ridiculous. But many of us do it. And so can you.

I think you're still a little in shock and both he and you aren't really accepting the reality of the divorce if you are kidding yourselves that everything can stay similar to how it is now. It can't, sad as it is in terms of seeing the impact on your children. That said, if you make wise decisions now then in a few years' time you can be significantly better off than you are now, after unwisely prioritising his earnings over your own. Think carefully about what you can do for work now to a) significantly raise your earnings over the long term; and b) give you more flexibility.

Your children are already teens. In just a few years you will be able to access expanded career options again that involve travel/ night shifts. But for now it clearly isn't feasible. Be thankful you're not raising them for an entire 18 years alone!

Also intrigued how someone earning £60k could be on track to have a pension of £2.5k per month!! This is equivalent to a pension fund of nearly £1m saved!

I presume this must be a public sector pension, otherwise he'd have been needing to save probably 50% of his salary through his entire working life to achieve that, as presumably his starting salary wasn't £60k if that's what he earns now.

Madness that people get pensions so out of proportion to their salaries, funded by everyone else. But anyway, you absolutely need an actuary's report to show the real value of his pension and yours - if they are defined benefit funds (which I presume they must be given this disproportionate pension projection: earnings ratio!) - so that your solicitor has a clear picture of the total marital assets and give you appropriate advice.

If he refuses to provide this then his claim to be being "amicable" and reasonable is clearly false and simply an attempt to manipulate you into agreeing an unfavourable settlement that he is attempting to sell to you as being for the DCs' benefit so as to not waste money on court proceedings. You need to be clear with him that you agree it'd be wise and cheaper to reach an agreement between you rather than in court however, this can only happen if there is full transparency about your respective finances so you can both make informed decisions when reaching a reasonable agreement.

Thankyou for the reality check and practical advice. I'm terrified that I'm going to struggle and suffer for the rest of my life in an effort to be amicable but my relationship with my kids is my priority and I do really want to have a decent relationship with their dad so that we can still support our kids together where we can. Part of this is because we had a co-dependent relationship and I'm trying to redefine it without cutting him out of my life, but as time goes on it's becoming clear he just can't manage this. He's already said he'll be heartbroken when I get a boyfriend and also that he doesn't like who I've become.

No, he's not in the military but is very good at his job so has regularly been headhunted and he's chosen to move to new areas for new jobs/promotions whereas I've struggled to find something that I can do with no training/qualifications and earn a half decent salary. I'm very aware that one of the reasons I have this job is that he supported me to get it and keep it and that will have to change, but every single aspect of my life is going to change while his stays largely the same and I am gutted but I do accept it. I just desperately wish I could keep this job for a few more years because it means so much to me.

If he’s on 60k there is zero chance of spousal and near on zero of op being awarded anything materially higher than 50% of marital pot ( inc pension)) and certainly not in order to keep her part time. A big dose of reality check is needed unfortunately

It’s understandable wanting to minimise disruption to kids. But it is often simply not possible. Same as plans to fund things change as money has to fund two households etc. that’s divorce unfortunately, both everyone will be worse off £

I've only got this far in the thread but don't see why assets and pensions etc should be split 50-50. You took a financial hit in working part time that stays with you forever because he wanted it, because he couldn't handle parenting while you worked your shifts? He has the job he has, the money he has because you enabled him to have it. What a piece of shit.

Quite, he doesn’t get to insist on 50/50 financial split. You argue he worked away and you brought up dc and you relocated regularly to be with him so through both of these effects your career suffered to support his, and you need more than 50% to fairly set up your life.

No, he's not in the military but is very good at his job so has regularly been headhunted and he's chosen to move to new areas for new jobs/promotions

But he's only on £60k? And you've gone through the hassle and expense of moving several times?

Okay.
Something a child psychologist said to me in my (very messy) proceedings.
Your children will have their own relationship with their father. It is your job to facilitate that (this was in terms of taking to contact). This does not mean you have to maintain a relationship with him yourself.

Our proceedings were very messy because for my ex, it was about me and not DC. I was the one who instigated the split and he didn’t want to split. They got way less messy when ex got himself a girlfriend and moved on but that was after five years of messiness. You were in what you describe as a co-dependent relationship. To me, it reads as if you still are. You keep coming back to the idea that you will need to give up your job because you are too scared to seek legal advice and put down boundaries; and indeed become more of the assertive person with her own needs that he apparently does not like (because that is what he means, right?)

If you want to separate, it is because you no longer want to be married. If you want to separate, it is not up to you to manage this man’s feelings. You are separating because you no longer want to manage this man’s feelings. So it doesn’t matter two figs what he things about who you ‘have become’ or his emotions if you get a new boyfriend (to be clear, the very best way he can ensure you never have a new boyfriend is to keep you tied up with childcare, travelling and managing his emotions).

If you want to separate from this man and protect your own interests, you need a lawyer. I don’t think there is really any more to it. Aside from yes, it may get messy but you will come out the other side.

I thought the same.

Totally not enough to be worth it. It would have been more lucrative to both earn 40k, given tax rates.

It is not about what I think, it is what research shows. I cannot actually believe that I am having to explain this on a forum for mothers, but here you go. If you don’t want to read the article, it says that studies show that longer maternity leaves (which are the norm in the U.K. and better for infant health) are detrimental to women’s career progression and women are also at greater risk of being fired once their leave is over. Childcare and other caring responsibilities are also why more women are likely to be in poverty. If one reference is not enough for you, I can provide many more but unfortunately I need to get ready for work so this is the first one I found (and while I am a great example of how childcare leads to lack of promotion, I am not about to say my industry as I do value some level of anonymity)

https://hbr.org/2018/09/do-longer-maternity-leaves-hurt-womens-careers

I have no idea what he earns now, that figure is from the past so I didn't write that bit very clearly. He became self employed around the time of the separation.
I have never been in a position to earn anywhere near 40k, I could have pushed myself harder admittedly but focused on bringing up our kids and trying to support him.
I'm well aware his relationship with his kids is his responsibility - I said that to his mum recently when she was pushing boundaries and she told me she was heartbroken I was restricting access to her grandchildren which was complete nonsense.

His relationship with his kids is his responsibility.
Therefore you do not need to maintain a relationship with him beyond practicalities. You said you were worried you were going to struggle and suffer for the rest of your life in an effort to be amicable. That is the point I was making. It does not sound like you can protect your interests here by being amicable. But I am not sure how many ways I can say that you need to get legal advice. You don’t even know how much he earns. So I will stop now and wish you the very best with resolving this.

You cannot possibly arrive at a sensible agreement on finances if you don't even know what he earns.

If your earning potential was so low then it doesn't sound like you sacrificed much to follow him around.

He is self employed so unless he works as a mercenary now I'm going to count that one out!

I cannot actually believe that I am having to explain this on a forum for mothers, but here you go.

Yes, I have noticed that people with your views don't like having them subject to scrutiny! That includes the academics who perform these "studies." You provided a US one which is completely useless because it won't factor in UK specific differences like the Equalities Act or the Maternity Protection Act.

However, I'm well aware of some of the "research" performed over here whose selection of data subjects is so biased that the output isn't worth the paper it is written on. For example, the charity Surviving Economic Abuse recently sponsored a UK wide study but their entire population was female, they did no follow up with ex-partners to check that what they were being told was honest (they simply took the stance that "we believe women") and the report produced was qualitative because presumably they had no reliable data to work with. This was research supposedly carried out on SEA's behalf by serious academics from Russell Group universities.

The research was so bad in fact that the policy recommendations would actually make matters worse for some victims of economic abuse.

If you can find me a piece of research where the data collection hasn't been flawed and the narrative hasn't been tainted by ideological vitriol then I might change my mind.

I think it is important to restate that the OP and her ex are just about to go into mediation. That despite previously agreeing to how to manage their separation and co parenting they now no longer agree.

This doesn’t sound like a high value divorce. The OP is claiming benefits, I have no issue with this, to support the separation costs. The reality for both of them is that will need to fund 2 homes. There will be minimal opportunity to share costs. It is an almost certainty that the OPs needs assessment will be based on an assumption that her earning capacity is that of a FT worker. Given the ages of the children the outgoings will not take account of “child care”. It isn’t needed. The ferrying around and chaperoning is also not a necessity.

The OPs ex seems to be a middle income earner, hit by high taxation. He is self employed. He seems to have high pension contributions. That implies his declared net income will be modest.

Children and especially teenagers need to be able to deal with change and to accept no as answer to what they want.

This! I have a friend who’s convinced her boyfriend is a top performer “amazing at his job” and therefore everything must revolve around that whereas in reality he’s a bang average performer who’s been promoted once in his (lengthy) career.

I have never been in a position to earn anywhere near 40k, I could have pushed myself harder admittedly but focused on bringing up our kids and trying to support him.

Now is the time to focus on yourself then and building your own career. Unfortunately sacrifices will need to be made, but that’s how it goes in divorce, you can’t expect to have it all ways. Your ex is equally responsible for your children pursuing these hobbies so he can take at least 50% of the blame there. There are plenty of jobs id love to do but can’t because they wouldn’t work for our family, that’s just life unfortunately.

I think that's quite an extreme reaction before you've even started legal proceedings. As long as neither of you are planning to be difficult and unreasonable it shouldn't cost more than a couple of thousand to get some solid advice and draw up an agreement.

If your children go to University they will have to do what most students do; take out a loan (which, if they list your home on the application form and you have a low income, should cover most of their expenses) and get a job.

Unfortunately this is the best it gets herein. At least for a while. For many parents working full time absolutely sucks. Many earn their poverty but more month than pay. Miss out on so much. Not able to accommodate extra-curricular as much as would like as other costs are time and energy. Sorry OP your post does come across as a bit entitled. SAHM for a long time, so do think it will take time to properly immerse into FT work reality but your DC have had more of you than many parents/children get. I find it hard to believe a sport activity requires parents to be there at times that does not fit round being able to work FT? Few parents otherwise would manage to make it work and it would be a Team of 1 or 2!
If ex-H is saying it no longer works, maybe best to stop fixating on ‘but we agreed’. You did and he is telling you it’s now not sustainable so it’s time to revise. It’s possible with some effort on your part (find a way or make one) you can work FT and get kids to their activities. Does come across though that you are making excuses as rightly or wrongly feel hard done to that ex-H has reneged and you will need to do what most do anyway. You were fortunate for many years to have that lifestyle. Accept it’s changed and how kids cope will be down to you being the bigger person (avoid blaming ex-DH) and turning it into a positive (Mum getting motivated and new career).