Can I be forced into working full time?

[naturalbaby]

I work part time/job share but 12hr shifts on an 8 day rota.

We have 3 teenagers with hectic schedules and it's impossible for 1 parent to manage alone for more than a few days - we agreed to be amicable and flexible and have very little/no childcare support. The reason I'm part time is because of the logistics of the kids schedules, it was very difficult for their dad to manage when I worked full time. He's now saying I'll have to work full time or get a different job. I'm on UC so this makes up for my loss of earnings.
Can I be forced to change my work in the next few months for the financial agreement??
We have a joint mediation session soon and I don't want to waste time so want to make it as efficient as possible so that we can finalise the divorce asap.

@Imbusytodaysorry you are spouting complete nonsense sense

You don’t need childcare.

the split of assets won’t be impacted by this. It will be based on housing you both to accommodate the children ( your needs are the same) and what you could earn ft, not what you earn part time. He won’t be expected to pay spousal unless he’s a very high earner.

he doesn’t sound unreasonable- you are the one seemingly pushing for more ‘childcare’ to up your chances of more assets.

divorce means you’re lifestyle will change

Put bluntly, it does not matter what your ex wants and expects, it matters what the law allows you to do and what you are able to do. It also matters in divorce what the best interests of the children are.
It sounds like you are bending over backwards to accommodate a man who keeps changing the goal posts. It sounds like he is doing it as a means of control as he does not like what you are doing on your own time.

If you want advice on your financial options and your legal position, you need to speak to something like the Citizen’s Advice Bureau and your solicitor respectively and work out what your room for manoeuvre is. Be very clear about that before you go into mediation. You are getting divorced which means you need to stop thinking like a wife who has obligations to her husband to meet his needs (which clearly you have been doing for ten years) and start to think about how best to make things work for you. His expectations are noise here, you need to get on with what works for you.

Sit down and work out what you know and what you can rely on, which only you control, and that will show you what you have to work with.

If he wants to split custody 50:50, that means he does half the child care. You don’t take care of the kids on his days. You don’t drive them to school. You don’t ferry them to activities. That is his problem. He also pays for his half of the time. When you negotiate, you don’t let him cherry-pick the easier or cheaper days.

if he wants you to keep driving the children around, then insist on any day you take care of them during the day you also have them overnight. He can’t have it both ways. You are either free to work more because he is doing his fair share or he pays child maintenance.

You don’t need childcare for teenagers OP.

are they all under 16? I’m really surprised you need a parent on site for these sports at all times for teens. Is it an unusual sport? It’s not the case for the standard sports my kids do- netball, rugby, football. I’m guessing it’s something different?

There's 10 of us in our department and not one full time job between us! I'd love to work full time but the jobs just don't exist. To make matters worse there's only 2 departments in the UK that do what we do, I'm in the North and the other is in Cornwall so unless I change direction completely I can't work full time!

So replace childcare with another word - because we've got ourselves into a situation where 3 kids do 4 different activities across one evening and 1 parent cannot manage it alone. We currently do because we've agreed to be flexible to accommodate the kids routines for as long as possible, so between lift shares and other arrangements we've made it work during the separation.

And yes, as difficult as it is for people to comprehend, my teenagers play a sport that requires an adult to be on site during training and matches.

And yes I can and will return to work full time but it took months to negotiate a job share arrangement and I can't just jump back into full time work. I did have 2 other jobs that worked around my shifts but I can't do those roles when I'm with the kids due to the nature of the work.

Yes, my life is complicated and difficult to understand without divulging every single detail of my life, and I'm putting a huge amount of work into changing everything because of the divorce.

@naturalbaby I don't think you are accepting your situation though. Unless you can prove to a court that under no circumstances can you go full time immediately (and bear in mind it will take around 9 months to a year to get to a final hearing, during which time you'll have been expected to try and resolve this) then you have no legal argument to counter your ex-husband's argument that you should work full time. At a final hearing, without an acceptable argument about why you cannot work full time, your income will be imputed to a full time amount, the assets divided accordingly and a clean break ordered.

The children's activities will not be a valid argument. Nor will only recently negotiating part time hours (that will just raise questions on why on earth you did that during a divorce and might even make you look unreliable in front of a judge). The sort of arguments you would need are:

1. Children under the age of 7;
2. Serious ill health of you or a child;
3. Demonstrable effort to find full time work but being unable to do so (i.e. lots of applications and rejections that can be proven with evidence).

As it stands your husband has a valid argument and you don't. Whilst you cannot be forced to work full time, there are no legal grounds on which he should support you working part time either. Unless you have a valid legal argument, this is going nowhere.

Teenagers should be able to get themselves to and from school. They should be able to get themselves to and from their hobbies. If they have chosen a hobby that needs an adult to be chaperone then you can either tell them no or take the financial hit yourself. Your ex has told you he won’t accommodate this any longer. It’s probably unaffordable for him.

There is no need necessity to jungle pick up and drop offs. It is problem you have created and the solution is to let them manage it themselves.

I personally think you may regret not getting a solicitor involved to advise you at least if not manage this for you. Or a barrister if you want to save money via direct access. Financial settlements are based on the need of both parties for themselves and the children. That's what the court looks at along with health needs /challenges if applicable, earning potential of parties, outgoings such as activities for the kids (which is a joint responsibility if you both agree they need them) and a number of other factors, a solicitor will assist you to set out the financial needs of you and your children. They will also consider the future in terms of pension contributions during the course of the marriage to even things up if you have been unable to work because of children etc. Once everything is set out in writing it's easier then to achieve a negotiated settlement I.e he may have a bigger pension pot than you and to keep it he may decide to cover more of the children's expenses in the short term or to help you cover any NI shortfalls in your own contribution. The court wont and can't order you to work as such but they can take an unwillingness into account if there is no good reason. Your husband can't make you work but the court may take the view that you have the ability to work or to work more hours and take that into account in the settlement. That said they usually take the view that it takes a period of time for the parent the child/ren lives with to get back on their feet so may make an order to additional support to enable that for a period of time. It's all about being fair and reasonable to both parties and to take the interests of the children into account. I have been divorced twice both very contentious and understand fully the weight of worry with solicitor costs. The second time I went direct access with a barrister because I was able to manage the day to day admin myself to keep costs down. I have also helped a number of friends navigate their divorces. Uninformed financial decisions made without understanding what you are entitled to ask to be taken into account will likely cost you dear in the medium to long term. I would at least have a discussion with a solicitor to understand what you should expect to achieve in a mediation discussion to agree a financial settlement with your DH. Best of luck these are tricky and stressful times but they pass and things settle down for everyone.

If you just told him you were going back to your old job 4 days of 12hr shifts, what would happen? Because personally that's what I'd do. He wants you to work full time, that's how your profession works, he just has to deal with it. You've been flexible and sacrificed all these past years.
I'd also say you need a solicitor and quickly, you need someone in your corner.

I mean, teenagers can legally be married and bear children. Absurd to think they need to be chaperoned at the expense of the family income.

If they can't go alone for some bizarre reason, they need to drop out so mum can earn a living. Very simple. They will survive.

I haven't fully accepted my current situation, I know that. The reason I posted was for a brutal and straightforward answer because I am so exhausted with managing the day to day family life that I'm massively behind on my admin and wanted someone with more experience and knowledge to tell me how this could pan out.

I've had a really difficult weekend coming to terms with the fact that ex clearly cannot cope with the situation and it's taken a year of giving eachother the opportunity to figure it out ourselves without involving solicitors. We're preparing for our first mediation session and I'm trying to prepare myself for accepting the reality of the situation.

I'm hopeless at admin and trying to get a grip on how I'm actually going to get through this process.

How much do both of you earn?
what assets are there ?

Have you actually taken legal advice?
Because that will tell you the reality of the situation and how it could pan out. Not what people on the internet say. None of us know what your family’s assets are, what your contribution to the household and family to date would be worth, how much pension of your spouse you are entitled to etc. then this plus what you can earn.
What we do know is that you are running yourself ragged trying to provide the level of parenting which two parents would normally provide and as you are finding out, this is exhausting and not sustainable. But you cannot answer what to do about that without decent legal advice. And you need your own legal advice from someone who represents you. Otherwise you are effectively going into mediation blind.

Imagine if you werent separated or divorcing, the schedule that the kids have and the requirements for supervision and your views (and perhaps dads previous views) about the kids needing someone at home all the time with them are unrealistic and unnecessary.

It doesnt work whether there are 2 parents living in the same home or one.

The problem is that the hobbies have been built up as non negotiable and just like all of us, sometimes you just cant have something or do something.

Its not realistic to be ferrying kids of this age all around, they need local hobbies taht they transport themselves to. Ive never heard of such a thing where parents are accompanying big old young adults to training sessions

Yes 13 year olds can stay at home during a parents shift, what do you think other parents do, and presumably his siblings are there some/all of the time anyway?

This is a bit of a non problem. Im not surprised he has changed his mind about maintaining an unrealistic schedule, it needs to change.

Op I don’t understand why you’re doing so much if he wants 50/50 care. Is he getting that right now? If he’s getting 50/50 it means he’s doing 50% of the ferrying around.

And yes people do leave their 13 year olds while they go to work during the holidays. I’m not even sure what childcare would exist for my DD when she goes to high school next year. Her wrap around and holiday club is for primary age kids. It’s not ideal but we’ll cope as my mum did as a single parent. The good news is your 13 year old has older siblings who can supervise.

Part of my problem is we were in a co-dependent relationship and I've always found it excruciatingly difficult to ask for help of any sort. We don't have family/friends in the local area that we can ask for help for various reasons - we have asked, we have paid, we have tried over and over again. We've both spent a few years adjusting our schedule, cutting back on hobbies (one child was doing 8hrs or extra curricular sport per week at one point) and looking for help and support.
I naively believed we could do this amicably and low cost by negotiating between ourselves and only using solicitors to sign things off at the end of the process. I had a massive wake up call the other day when he went back on a lot of things he's agreed on and accused me of all sorts of unpleasant things because I called him out on not respecting my boundaries.

Well said, @soupfiend

The hobbies can't be the priority. It's not sustainable in the new reality.

I'm not sure it is a level that two parents would provide tbh. I would not be running 3 kids to 4 different activities in one night. I would not drive 100 miles each way and wait on site for the duration of a sports match, unless my child was in the Olympics maybe. The issue is that the kids have become used to a completely unsustainable schedule, even if their parents stayed married. It also sounds as though OP hasn't really accepted that they aren't babies any more and should be mostly independent by now.

Either way, I don't know any parents, married or otherwise, who are parenting at this level of intensity when their children are teenagers, even if they only have one. For three, it's crazy.

Nobody likes admin, but you do need to accept that you are divorcing, and it's a process you will find easier if it's something you're doing rather than something that you don't understand and is being done to you.

Get yourself off the back foot, take legal advice (spolier: he will be) and clue yourself up on what a reasonable settlement would look like, both in terms of finances and child care.

Head towards that, accept that things will change dramatically. Keep going, you will get there.

I am not trying to be unkind but are you really listening to what people are explaining and saying about this level of parenting. Because I don’t think you are and the discussion is going round in circles. I can imagine why he is just calling time on the whole thing, no matter what you agreed in the past.

Most people on here are telling you unequivocally that you will be assessed as being able to work FT. They are also saying that you have created untenable and unnecessary levels of parental support to teenage children’s hobbies. Your response is to repeatedly claim there is no other option. In that respect I can see why he is saying he just isn’t going to do it. And that this has nothing to do with him being able to cope or flex his working life. He just isn’t going to do what you think is necessary.

It is clear that you can’t see it is unnecessary to ferry them around and that you want it to continue. But that’s your choice and one he is expressly saying he isn’t willing to cooperate with. That is stalemate which will be either sorted out in mediation or court.

Personally I think he is right to call time on this and get off the merry go round.

I am reading replies and I am processing them. We've known for years that our schedule and these hobbies are unsustainable - we've been working on it for years and it's crunch time over the next few months. We both agreed to be flexible to support the kids during the separation phase where there was no alternative transport/supervision until there comes a time where they have to give up. We've agreed to share transport for the kids across the week regardless of who's day it is with them, so that they can continue with their day to day lives during their GCSEs.

This post was initially about my working hours and what I can be 'forced' into changing because at one point he was refusing to accommodate my shift pattern all together because the rota doesn't fit a 7 day pattern, and I genuinely don't believe it's reasonable to leave my 13yr old for 13 hours a day/overnight when they have to get public transport to/from school . We've had massive issues with sibling rivalry at home so yes he has 2 older siblings in/out the house but the eldest trying to 'parent' him has caused huge issues at home.

I think you're coming at it from the wrong end which is why you're feeling stuck.

You're not trying to keep things the same. Things are really going to change. Your teen's hobbies are only one facet of this. You need to thrash out the finances, which will primarily be dividing the marital assets and housing both parties reasonably and fairly, and come to an agreement regarding child care. If it's 50/50 then what would that look like? Would it be a week with one parent, week with the other? A rolling fortnightly or monthly pattern?

How are you both going to adjust your working schedules to accommodate this? In the same way as you can't be "forced" to work full time, if you can earn enough money to run what will be your own household in part time hours, that's up to you, he can't be "forced" to accept your shift pattern necessarily.

If it helps, you're in the business of raising the kids, and your business is being divided into two sites. How are you doing to run things now? You are in charge of your site, he's in charge of his.

I have kept things the same for as long as possible because of GCSEs and neuro diversity. We're now shifting things and making changes.
I can and will return to full time work but need to negotiate this with my employer and I don't know if that will tie in with the financial order being submitted in March. I can't just up my hours and may be forced to move to a different location and shift pattern at some point during the year so that will change our childcare plan again.
Ex is self employed and works from home so has a huge amount of flexibility, I don't.