Can we have a general divorce chat please?

[BirthdayRainbow]

My h moved out in July. I did not know he wouldn't be coming back but I'm fine that he hasn't. I feel like I was absolutely fine at the start as knew it was the right thing but now I'm feeling so heartbroken at what has caused this situation. I don't want him back. It's the right thing. So why am I so sad?

any advice re kids would be great. They are all over 18 but it's like he's struggling with the split that he thinks he doesn't have to be a father anymore.

H wasn't that bothered about sex. I'm not sure he ever was. But the fact I've been abused and how I deal with that has obviously been on his mind and made him feel certain things and say the awful things he did which is why I am divorcing him. There was a reason I never said no to him and i don't think it is important now but it's all part of the huge sadness as to why this was not a good match. I remember saying something to my lovely ex and he said if I hadn't been emotional and sexually secure I wouldn't have said what I did just naturally. I never felt like that with h.

Thanks for the reminder. Hopefully the weather will be nice and I can be out in the garden. I'll walk the dog for a while too.

Just realised I have no idea where you live. It might be a problem if you're in Scotland!

I hope you have a lovely time with your son. I was wondering how they were doing and then forgot to ask.

@BirthdayRainbow In that case it's definitely something for therapy. And don't ever be drawn into any further discussions with the ex about it. I do think your friend sounds like he has a good understanding of it all and is respectful.

I too question if we were a good match. The only thing I can think of is that it seemed like a really good idea at the time! Sometimes I do think I settled though. But your circumstances are different because of your ex.

I think tomorrow's activities might be weather permiting to be honest! So, I'm in the SW. We have a very strange place in my home town which is a garden centre with a department store and an amusement park with a model railway. It's seen better days and hasn't changed since my first visit whilst on holiday here in 1985 but its ds's favourite place on earth so could be heading there tomorrow!

DC are counting down the days until they finish school though!

I'll never discuss it again with my h @Whsthappensnow and would prefer to never talk to him again about anything. When I said we haven't discussed the end of our marriage he said there's no point going over old ground....I said that's convenient when he's not the one who is hurting.

My friend has never once looked at me and thought there's an abused woman. It's always just God she's hot and I can't believe she likes and wants me.

I would never have gone out with my h for long never mind married him if I hadn't been told my ex had got married. He hadn't..

What you've described sounds like somewhere we've been on holiday.

@BirthdayRainbow How are you feeling this morning?

I do think it's the right idea now to leave everything in the past. I remember at the beginning after a few months we tried for the best part of a year but dragging things up just made everything more painful.

It's amazing your friend sees you like that. When I look at pictures of myself from when I first separated from my ex I think you can see the trauma. I am very different now.

Yes I know what you mean I do sometimes think I made the wrong descions along the way but if I hadn't met my ex I wouldn't have the dc I do and I wouldn't change them for the world.

So yes this was a great place to settle after it happened. I didn't want to much upheaval for the dc and I feel no connection to where I'm from (Surrey) so with the dc being born in a medditeranean holiday resort where we are seemed like a good compromise. South Devon is a great place to bring up children but we're not too remote.

Freezing here now though so won't be doing any gardening. Have been online shopping for an outfit for my holiday/friend's wedding. Bought a dress I've had my eye on for ages.

Hi @Whsthappensnow sorry I've been AWOL. I walked the dog then I've been in the loft all day going through more stuff.

I went out and told my friend/neighbour about talking to the crisis people but I'm not sure she got why I needed to. She was very kind but I struggled to explain myself really.

H will never speak to me about anything important and I've accepted that. He barely talked when we were together! I have my therapist and I'll discuss anything I need to with her. And I have you!

My first love is just incredible. He was a huge support when I told him H had an affair and didn't try and take advantage at all. He supported my decision to stay and say I hadn't picked the easy option. When one of my DC was very ill and missing he messaged every day to see if there was any news and even now will randomly text and ask how they are doing. We have the most incredible chemistry but he's still married so doesn't matter than I'm not.

Off to feed the cats then go and get DS2 from the station as he's coming home for Easter from University.

Good for you buying new clothes. I've put a load of mine on Vinted ready for the move.

@BirthdayRainbow I've had lots to do round here too although I'm relaxing in the house on my own at the moment as Dd is out for her best friend's birthday treat. And my parents took ds to his favourite place! I decided I would benefit from a couple of hours peace!

So, I wouldn't worry about your friend. Sometimes you just need to offload and you obviously felt the need to call crisis or you wouldn't have done it. Also I actually think under these circumstances it's only people with lived experience that truly understand. But yes you've got me but do discuss this with your therapist and carry on with your friend as you are now.

Have fun catching up with DS!

I need to put more stuff on Vinted. I always end up buying rather than selling! I got some lovely gold heels from there this morning for 4 quid!

That's great your parents took DS out for you@Whsthappensnow !

My son and I just had chips from the chippy as I've not eaten all day. I'm still struggling and only have one meal a day.

DS2 has told me that H has told him he is feeling meh and is seeing a counsellor on Sunday and going back to the GP next week. I feel conflicted as feel responsible.

Your heels sound fab and what a bargain!

@BirthdayRainbow they're back now and he was disappointed a bit that they closed the arcades early! Dd is back full of bubble tea and Vietnamese food!

I did get some peace but I've had a frustrating day regarding that big family day out I'm not keen on going to. The person organising it went ahead and booked tickets for everyone then demanded the money. Haven't had any actual contact with her in months and I think it's really rude. So that's got my back up a bit.

Glad ds got there OK and got his chips. I hope you get your appetite back properly soon. But in the meantime if you can get away with eating things you really want and things that make you feel better then do it.

Don't let your Hs condition get to you. I have exactly the same issue. I just said I hope the treatment makes you feel better. I refuse to be dragged into it and I refuse to be made to feel responsible.

Oh I love a Vinted bargain! Also my Vinted bargains are a talking point at work. I bought a dress the other day for 10 quid and it was new with tags for 50! I was tempted to sell it on! I really should have a clear out soon but I often find Vinted a bit slow. I've had some stuff on there for ages that won't shift.

Please don't go to the family thing and don't pay @Whsthappensnow . You will be boosted by being your best advocate and sticking up for yourself and they will learn not to be twats. Hopefully. Don't go. Reminds me of when I was invited to MIL for Christmas and I really didn't want to go. I explained to my eldest why not and he wasn't very understanding. I discussed it with my lovely ex. He said do not go. The easy option would be to go but the right thing is to stay away. So I didn't go.

I am a bit 🙄at h telling ds. He's never asked the kids about their mental health and it feels very self indulgent. H won't be interests in my well wishes. He's already said he doesn't want to talk to me nor does he want my sympathy when I said I was genuinely sorry he thought about killing himself. I'm so bloody angry with him. He chose to chose not to believe me. He decided we were done. He decided not to fight for me. So why the fuck is he struggling so much? My therapist has said why, as has my lovely ex, but I still find it hard to believe.

I haven't eaten properly since July. I'm hoping I'll be better once I move. I hate being here.

@BirthdayRainbow It's my DM making me feel guilty for not wanting to go, dsf is 80, all he wants is the entire family together blah blah blah. But it's a tourist attraction I've been to millions of times. Its great but been there done that and its £150 I'd rather spend on other things and I absolutely hate being bullied into doing things I don't want to do and I at least wanted to get my own tickets and show up when I like and eat what I want when I want! It's half way between us and them in Surrey so they think they are making an effort!

I don't know what else to say about your ex. I just think this is another reason why keeping your distance is the right choice. It sounds at the moment like your DS gets it. Also I don't know if this is the same for you but my ex has a group of friends who are all in the same situation as him. I know there is a big movement in men's mental health at the moment but I feel like my ex is worse after he's spent time with them just thought he might be influenced by others.

And yes when you move you will feel free.

Please say no. You are helping a friend that day. It's an emergency. She needs you. Don't be bullied anymore. You've got out of a marriage that wasn't working and the world didn't end. You can do it again. You'd tell your kids not to give into bullies. Show them how (metaphorically).

It's only since we split that he's saying he has been depressed before but he won't say when nor what it was caused by or how it manifested itself. I don't believe him tbh. I know he does have anxiety now though.

I am so conflicted as he has hurt me so much but while I don't have any loving feelings towards him anymore, it's hard to not feel sorry. Argh.

I messaged my lovely ex saying I needed him and could I have him for a moment and he said yes. I've told him what's wrong so just wanting for his reply. I'm so annoyed with myself re h but don't know what to do about it as I don't know why I feel like this. Gah.

Apparently h has new friends of both sexes but I know nothing about them.

He's replied and said exactly what I needed to hear so asked him one more thing. I'm feeling so overwhelmed today. Playing on my mind too that h is coming on Monday and I don't want to see him, will have to talk to him and worrying about how he'll be with DS2.

@BirthdayRainbow It is a good point about me feeling bullied. That's not a bad idea and I think I will use your suggestion but I also think I need to talk to DM and lay it on thick that I will not be taking any crap from anyone anymore!

So my ex had had depressive episodes before and I was always very dismissive of it because I never saw it as an actual condition which he has apparently since been diagnosed with. Having said that, these days he's worse after he's seen or been in touch with these friends whenever he's done something extreme it's nearly always because one of them has suggested it. Underpayment of maintenance so he could have a night out with them for example, the blackmailing thing etc.

You are almost certainly not to blame and if he's doing things that are out of character it will be coming from somewhere.

Try not to worry about it too much. It's only a day. You may even make some progress and you still have your friend's support and ours. And therapy next week.

I'm glad you're going to talk to your mum. Will she think you mean her as well? Will she take it okay or sulk?

It sounds very difficult with your ex seemingly copying his friends. Do you think he is genuinely ill or just thinking it will get him sympathy from you and give him an excuse for not being a good dad?

My lovely ex has just said none of it is my fault as well. He really seems to have a handle on my H even though they only met once years ago.

On Monday I'll walk the dog so that's 1.5-2 hours then I'm taking DS2 to his appointment so that's another hour and 15 minutes at least out of the house.

Thank you @Whsthappensnow

@BirthdayRainbow She will absolutely sulk. Remember what I said about thier wedding. The other thing was there was a big family wedding I wasn't invited to. I didn't let that phase me but I haven't seen any of them since way before that so I'm thinking the atmosphere would be tricky anyway. I'm a bit gobsmacked they think everyone is just going to rise above it and pretend its all ok. We're supposed to be seeing dsb on the way to our cabin next week but at the moment he's not sure if he's free yet dsf has booked us into a hotel near his house! So if he makes no effort to see us then it will be easier for me to get out of the other thing.

I think the situation my ex is in now has given him stress and anxiety. I don't think he has the kind of depression that is an actual chemical imbalance in the brain. So, I'll give you another example, I remember this one toxic friend advising him about parental responsibility and the benefits system. He was telling my ex to go for custody and to get benefits and a council house and he was absolutely convinced he'd be able to do this and at one point even asked me to borrow some of the kids stuff so I could make it look like they were staying in his B&B and this is while I was doing the school runs and working full time and he was cleaning for 2 hours a day. These are the kind of men that go for split custody then claim to be the main parent not because they want to be responsible for the dc but to avoid paying maintenance. When my ex realised he couldn't do that, he spent all his money from selling his business and because he has expensive habits he has no money so that's why he spiralled. Oh, and he's lonely. So basically when he asked me to leave he had no idea what his life would look like afterwards but all his single friends were shagging around and he fancied not being tied down anymore. Again not saying any of that is relevant but it's worth considering.

Your ex is right and that sounds like a great plan for Monday.

It's funny how people who dish our crap are always very sensitive and can't take it back and it's quite controlling to think someone can treat people, like rubbish but expect them to play along. No more.

I've no idea why h decided to not come back as he's certainly not going to be shagging about. I know he said he didn't believe I only wanted space but I've never lied to him or been manipulative so I think he's making things up as he goes along. In the row the other week he told me I don't know how to react to people which would be funny if it wasn't so bloody offensive and clearly him projecting. My therapist thinks he is struggling as he is lost without me as he has no identity. He isn't a stupid man. If he wasn't happy with me he can't have felt everything would be tickerty boo when he left?!

my lovely ex texted me again and said my kids are strong as am I so that was nice. I told him that I was awesome and v v v sexy but my h never saw me as that. My lovely ex cheerleads for me more than my own husband did. He never complimented me or reassured me or ever had my back. My lovely ex always does.

Your ex sounds so stupid and immature to not see the futility and ridiculousness in his cunning plan!

My DS said he might go to Nanny's on Monday when his dad is here..

@BirthdayRainbow Morning! How are you feeling today?

Yes I definitely believe that about some people. I love my dsf and I can see how he's looked after my dm over the years but he has some personality traits that aren't brilliant and all of his dc have those qualities in bucket loads and are people I wouldn't choose as friends let alone siblings! Thankfully I didn't have to grow up with them! I wouldn't put my dc through any kind of blended family situation!

Don't they always say that when they can't think of anything else to come back with. He absolutely is projecting and making things up as he goes along. My ex had everything and now has nothing and I sometimes think couldn't you just have been happy with your lot? Again though, the explanation you have had from your therapist to me does make sense and sound entirely plausible. And your situation is similar to mine in that your ex didn't give any thought to what happens next.

I think having a cheerleader helps. For a while there was a very attractive, kind colleague who would compliment me, make me drinks and fight my corner but he's really gone off the boil at the moment. So there's times when I feel I don't have one. It's very useful. Make the most of it.

So the most of all my ex's toxic friends lost his driving licence from drink driving, then he lost his job, then the woman he was living with (for free) threw him out and now he's back living with his parents at the ripe old age of 49.

It might be wise DS not wanting to be around and it's great he still likes going to see his nanny but I wish he was around to support you.

Hi @Whsthappensnow I wasn't doing too well this morning. I felt quite lonely when out with the dog. When I got back I took DS shopping then we've been in the roof ever since going through stuff to see what can go. I've loads for the bin and loads for the charity shop plus a huge pile to be shredded.

I asked h for a trial separation in the week after he said his most cruel words and he refused. It said it would end in divorce. Or always does. I said no it doesn't. It will give us both time - I was being diplomatic as was me needing time - to think about things then come back together and talk and hopefully start again. Then five months later I asked again and he said shall I go then? Then left.

I can not work out why he is struggling so much. He left. He didn't fight for me. He doesn't want to be around me. So wth is he struggling so much ?! I'm wondering if he's making it all up tbh. But today he is having therapy and then seeing the GP.

I am fine with DS going to his Nanny. I don't want him here with h if he doesn't want to be and I know DS would rather see her. He probably thinks h won't walk to him anyway!

I'll be your cheerleader ! I've not heard from him today and he didn't reply to my last message then later I sent another one thanking him for being so lovely and always having my back but no doubt we'll talk soon. He often checks in with me if he knows h has been over.

Hi@BirthdayRainbow sorry you felt like that but doing more sorting out might be therapeutic. It's good to be out in the fresh air I hope you aren't feeling lonely anymore but I do get how being out when you are walking can get like that sometimes.

I still think you handled it all correctly. Those words can really cut like a knife. I know how painful it can be. Those people don't change and it probably would have happened again and possibly worse but you did give him a chance and he chose not to take it.

Obviously I'm not him and I'm not a professional but I get you might be looking for answers and sometimes I feel that way too. Do you think he could be feeling guilty and that would explain his current state of mind?

It was the same with my ex though. I was quite shocked that he had gone to the GP and got medication. He was always pushing me to. I've never been diagnosed with anything officially though. I think for me the difference is that my life has never been that dark. Despite everything that's happened, I've always been able to find joy or comfort somehow and my issues have always been circumstantial. When you lose that and can't see a way out there is a genuine problem.

Think we'll let DS off for wanting to go and see his nanny then!

I'm sure you've realised @Whsthappensnow that I meant talk to him, not walk. I asked DS as don't want him feel pushed out, he doesn't. He isn't bothered about seeing his dad and isn't bothered if he doesn't talk to him.

Mostly I'm okay as I live on my own and only have the kids home occasionally but sometimes I feel lonely. It's more about how few people I actually have when I feel like I want to talk to someone. I'm trying hard not to always put on the same few.

Sorting and getting rid is actually quite freeing. I've kept everything of the kids and have come to realise if they don't want it it is okay for it to go. Somethings they don't want I do but mostly I'm following their leads.

Thank you for saying I handled it correctly. One friend, who I felt would have come very close too, intimated that it wasn't marriage ending. She also implied I'd done the wrong thing by telling the children the truth about their dad's actions. She back tracked the next day but the explanation did not fit so I know what she really thought. Very few people know what he actually said as it was so painful but also I don't want anyone telling me I've overreacted. I know I haven't but it would still upset if they said so.

He said he felt guilty over his affair but I saw very little evidence of that. I know I did more to make things right than he did. He said he thought about it every day. Over the words he said he's said sorry twice, what more do I want?

I have an issue with an ex friend and I've asked my oldest friend three times for advice and it hasn't been forthcoming so I don't know if that is her advice or maybe she's still thinking.

@BirthdayRainbow Yes I realised that lol! And my dm says to me that as dc get older they have their own opinions and its better to let them choose when they can.

I got used to my own company a lot because I realised that no advice was better than bad advice. So I had the gossipy mums who refuse to believe my ex is capable of hurting anyone and there's the crowd who have no time for me so just keep telling me to go and find another man but I know my truth and I'm fed up with explaining myself so I nurture the new friendships with people who understand me.

Those people who told you you overreacted? They weren't there and you don't need them in your life.

I've had that too from my ex. Lots of presents, big gestures (He went to great lengths to get tickets for me to see my favourite band in an unusual venue) very frequent apologies, but, his behaviour carried on and I couldn't get over what he'd done before so it's best to accept that and move on.

I'd find that tricky if a Friend did that. I'm very conscious that some of mine won't want to talk about my issues. I think in that circumstance I'd be tempted to spend time with them, concentrate on them first as much as possible and then just casually drop in 'so, I was wondering if you'd had any more thoughts on what we were talking about last time?'

That's the thing with my children @Whsthappensnow , they are all 18 and above and absolutely can make their own minds up. All they needed was seeing/finding out that their dad was ignoring them/their sibling and had hurt their mum for them to not be happy with him and as time as gone on and he's been more rubbish they just don't want a lot to do with him.

You do right. People pressuring you to find a new man says more about them and their insecurities than it does about you if you did want a relationship.

I don't see her as much now and last time we saw each other I said very little as I just don't trust her now. I told my therapist and she pointed out my kids don't think I over reacted and no one else matters.

My ex bought me two rings and cards and flowers if I said I was feeling wobbly but it all meant nothing as I felt as I did. This time, it's been much worse what he's done to me and all I got was an email with all the right words but didn't actually do anything.

My friend is my oldest friend and we've started leaving each other voice notes so I've mentioned it in amongst other things I've talked about. TBH I was thinking about running it by you but I'll be discussing it again with my therapist as I'm so worried about cutting my nose off to spite my face as well as being hurt again.

Another friend has just texted and asked if everything has settled down a bit now. I was a bit short and said no it hasn't. I felt like saying that's not how divorce works when someone has badly hurt the other! She's been pretty judgy in the past so I've not been texting or meeting up as much. I don't think she would think she has but she has.

@BirthdayRainbow That's understandable about your DC.

Yes so I recognised that with those friends eventually. On reflection I might have just preferred them to tell me they were too busy to help me out at the moment lol!

Again absolutely agree with your therapist! And re asking anyone else for advice I'd say think about what happened this week. You need to protect yourself from any potential hurt so if telling someone anything might end up doing that then don't. I have made myself that promise this week to protect myself even from minor irritations so, I will not look at online dating sites again, I will not mention the photographer to my friend, I will just keep my head down at work (until the night out that is) and I will not be drawn into any discussion about the ridiculous family day out!

Re the other friend that is a tough one because I'd also say avoid anyone who might judge but at the same time (some) people change as they begin to understand your circumstances better. My dm at the beginning was absolutely adamant about keeping things civil with my ex but given things that have happened recently she said 'there's no such thing as an amicable divorce you know!'