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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

poor relationship with adult son

221 replies

Notsossuperdad · 07/07/2023 09:00

I would appreciate some advice as to what to do about the estranged relationship with my adult son. He is 25 years of age.

Four years ago I left his Mum, my wife of 28 years, for my now wife of 2 years. We had a six month affair which I am not proud of. My affair shocked everyone including myself my exwife and my son. He was in his last year of university when I left. I purposely waiting until then to leave to protect him from witnessing it.

From the moment he knew about the affair he has refused to talk to me other than when I first left and that was to tell me how disgusting I am to treat any woman let alone his mother with such disrespect and our family like old furniture to throw on the bonfire. At first I was angry. at his reaction and betrayal. I was so happy in my new relationship that I could not imagine he would not come round and reallythought he would so stood my ground. I had stayed in a marriage where felt unappreciated for years and felt this was my time now after sacrificing staying for him. I tried to tell him that but he accused me of blaming him for not being man enough to try and sort things out or leave in a decent way. My exwife also refused to speak to me other than on the unavoidable logistics needed to separate a life of 30 years. That left me heartbroken. I know that sounds a ridiculous thing to say but I really dont think I realised that deep down I still loved her deeply. She was my childhood sweetheart and I still remember the first time I saw her. I could never have feelings that profound for anyone else and we have a bond that can never be broken or replaced. I have only just come to that realisation after 2 years of therapy. I should of spoken up sooner and tried to change things but I was too distracted by having something new and exciting and a person that made me feel special. I see now through therapy that validation is a key need for me. Instead I let that upset turn to anger and we entered the usual vicious divorce battle.

My now wife treats me how I wanted my exwife to. She is affectionate and shows every day that she appreciates me and is always making an effort. I lam trying to be to her what I should have been to my exwife. Maybe if I had been different to her we would still be together and I do not want another divorce.

As to my son I have tried to reach out by sending cards and the odd text. At first he would reply to my texts to tell me to respect his decision and leave him alone and he will contact me if he changes his mind. Now he just point blank ignores them. I am so upset by his continued rejection I find it hard to carry on. I do not know what is going on in his life which is so difficult. I reached out recently to my exwife a few months ago for help. She was actually civil and said that she understands my sadness but that this is something he and I need to sort out and whatever I think she has not encouraged him to not speak to me. I believe her I think. At first I thought she was behind him not or at least encouraging it but my brother sees my son still and says its very clear it is his choice. He will not tell me anything as my son has asked him not to and he feels he must respect that. My current wife and her family are not so sure and think my exwife is behind it and that my brother is being disloyal. For a long time I became embroiled in that and almost found comfort in sessions where we would demonise and critique my exwife. Some days I feel ashamed at doing that and have a need to hug her and just say I am sorry. Others I still blame her. I think my exwife and son think I have just ran off without a care in the world. that is so far from the truth.

I would appreciate some advice and especially from those of you that have been left having to support a child that feels let down on what to do next. I do not think my son will ever accept my new life and I would settle for just the two of us having contact. My wife is not happy that he looks down on her so I am always in conflict as if I show too much sympathy for his view it upsets her. To avoid that I do a lot of my grieving privately. She is very clear that she would welcome my son if he wanted to be a part of her life but i think deep down him not being suits her because of his views about her. For me it is not his say what i do. My brother said my son told him he cannot see how my wife and I think it is okay to openly celebrate our relationship and put it on a pedestal even though it has wrecked his and mine. I see his point but what can I do? I generally try and keep things quiet as I am more introvert and I do not want to do anything to make things worse. But my wife is very active on social media and makes lots of posts about our life like our holidays, engagement party, wedding, honeymoon etc. her view is that my son is an adult and needs to either not look or get a grip. I see her point too which makes this very tricky. I feel like I am walking a tightrope.

My wife and i are also trying for a baby. She is a fair bit younger than me and understandably wants a child. I fear that if I cannot build sone form of bridge with my son before that happens it will definitely never be repaired so am keen to try and do so as soon as possible.

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 10/07/2023 17:35

I think that this is very hard.

You did do an awful thing, which you recognise, and now you are living the Boris Johnson cliched life, while your ex family are in all sorts of pain.

However, you didn’t cheat on your son and not having a relationship with him will be bad for both of you. He is in his 20s, an age of firm black and white beliefs, and your wife is a saint and you are the devil incarnate.

If your ex wife supports you two having a relationship, that will be a positive. However the only solution may be time and consistently inviting him to events and acknowledging his important days and achievements. I suspect you can rebuild a relationship but it may take many years and maybe will only happen when he has children of his own.

MrsAlgernon · 10/07/2023 17:54

In two minds as whether responses are overly harsh or not.

I have been in your son's position, already an adult when my parents split.

But I wasn't bitterly disappointed in him like the OP's son, even though I am sensitive. I appreciated how my dad handled at the time. The way he introduced his new partner (now wife of 15 yrs) and prioritised my financially vulnerable mum long before the break up (thankfully mum had someone else holding torch for her). It was hard for everyone at first but I knew at the time it was for the best. His new wife was also very sensitive to the circumstances.

The diff seems your son doesn't believe you it was for the best, my heart aches how he seems to sound very blindsided and I don't blame him at all.

I'd have recommended cooling period but sounds like it's been 4 years already. Something else must have gone awry, sounds like OP's son kept getting disappointed over and over again by the way things were handled rather being 'stubborn'.

PocketSand · 10/07/2023 18:10

My son is no contact with his father although there was no affair (at the time) there was other stuff that led to our separation. His father is just not the person he thought he was and he does not like the person he really is and so does not want him in his life. His choice.

Original poster
Notsossuperdad · 12/07/2023 09:00

trippingthelightfantastic1 · 10/07/2023 11:44

My friend sent me a link to this post as it is so close to what happened in my case she thought you might be my ex-husband! My son was the same age as yours when his father left, but we are many more years down the line. I felt compelled to respond out of sorrow and exasperation for your son, although I have no doubt you will disregard what I say as you have the other posters.

Like my son’s father, you appear to live in cloud cuckoo land and have a grandiose idea of yourself. What you need to understand, is that your happiness comes at your son’s expense. You might be able to compartmentalise your life to avoid accepting or minimise what you’ve done, but your son won’t be compliant in that charade.

Your son is 25 and is not stupid. He knows you’re human and will make mistakes and decisions he might not like. But he has a legitimate expectation that you will not make decisions or act in a way that knowingly devastates his life. You say you are happy. How can you be happy when what you have now has lost you your son, caused him pain and disrupted his childhood memories? If you are still happy despite that, then you don’t love your son as a parent should. He knows that. If you don’t act like a parent, how can you expect him to treat or see you like one?

A few things stood out in your post. The first is you saying you tried to explain to your son that you stayed for him. My son’s father said something similar. The decision to stay was yours. Trying to blame a child for being a coward and not speaking up is abhorrent. You have pretty much told him that his childhood family memories are a lie and it’s his fault that is the case. Pretty low on anyone’s standards.

The second is the line that you left his mother and not him. Your son sees himself as part of a family. You walked away from that family and now want to see him on different terms. He was blindsided yet is expected to come to terms with the fact that his family, as he knew it, has gone forever, and it was all a lie anyway. You can leave an unhappy marriage. But as others have already pointed out, you do that in a respectful and measured manner to mitigate any harm to your son and in a way that upholds the integrity of his family memories and allows him a way to navigate forward.

The part where you talk about demonising your wife is really disturbing. Why would you do that to the mother of your own flesh and blood and in the full knowledge that it will upset your son? You say she has refused to talk to you. So what? Surely you expected that would happen if you treated her and your son like sh*t and what do you care if she made you so unhappy anyway? You care because her silence reminds you of your actions and that does not suit your narrative or allow you to manipulate her into bringing your son around to your way of thinking. Your ex-wife has been left to pick up the pieces. You should be grateful that she puts your son first and does her best to make up for you behaving like a man-child. Again, had you left in a decent way and put your son first, things would be very different with your ex-wife, I am sure.

I agree with other posters that you should respect the clear boundary your son has set and leave him be. My son made clear to his father that he did not want to talk to him. I did the same. Despite that he would continuously come to one of us directly. This made things worse. Your son knows the door is open and I suspect your ex-wife will nudge him occasionally as to whether he wants to contact you or not.

As to social media usage, most people keep the things they want to show off about private, even when their joy has not come at the expensive of others. Public bragging posts are done for attention/validation/impression management and sometimes have a sinister motive. I agree with others that it is not helpful if your wife posts things that brag about your new life, not least because they only show a small part of the real story don’t they. It is all very well saying your son should not look, I expect others send them to him (people are nosey) - that is certainly what tended to happen in our case. I don’t know if your wife posts publicly for general validation (look at me and my wonderful life), or if as others suggest, it is for your son or ex-wife’s benefit to make clear she has won the prize. I fail to see how it is not the latter as you wife will know that is how it will be perceived by those that know the truth. I would be astounded if your ex-wife is jealous and thinks of you as a prize – notwithstanding what you did to her and, in your own words, she has shone without you, you have treated the person she loves the most in the world and trusted you would never harm, like a piece of sh*t. Your wife has no need to worry that your ex-wife still wants you given that, trust me. You mention you had a bond that nothing can break. Not sure what planet you live on, but I think you can consider that bond broken beyond repair.

The very fact there is a risk your son might see a post if made public, would be a deterrent for any right-minded person with an ounce of decency as it is blatantly obvious that it would deepen the wedge between you and your son. Showing off is all well and good if you have not caused harm to others. It is incredibly selfish and distasteful to show off in these circumstances. Your apathy about your wife’s posts speaks volumes. It tells your son that you care more about his wife bragging than his feelings and her rubbing salt into the wounds. Actions speak louder than words. You and your wife both know the posts will be harmful.

Eventually the pain may resile and your son come to terms with what has happened. That does not necessarily mean that your relationship will recover though. My son is no longer affected by what his father does, not because he has forgiven him, but because he is past caring and has detached from him as a parent. He sees him as an embarrassing cliché and a jackass, not a father. All very sad and unavoidable.

Would you mind if I ask a few questions? Has your son ever wavered on not wanting anything to do with his dad? Was there anything your exhusband could of done to persuade you or him to talk to him and allow him to say sorry and a move forward?

OP posts:
Original poster
Notsossuperdad · 12/07/2023 09:01

Highdaysandholidays1 · 10/07/2023 06:16

I didn't speak to my dad for two years when he did this exact thing (although he didn't go on to have a baby).

I eventually came round and I do see them, his wife has been in my life for over 20 years now.

I am not close to them though and it diminished what I thought of him forever, it's just not impressive and it's such a cliche.

The good thing is my mum is much much happier with her lovely new partner, so overall the break-up was a good thing.

Can I ask what made you change your position and start talking to your dad again?

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 12/07/2023 09:09

You are not respecting his boundary to give him space - even time you text or send a card it is further proof that your priority is yourself and your own feelings and your belief he has rejected you.

he has told you he ends space the on,y thing you can do is give him that

PowerBMI · 12/07/2023 09:49

@Notsossuperdad I am going to suggest that you only function through women.

I suspect that you relationship with your son was only good due to effort your ex wife put in. If you had a good relationship with your son, independent of your ex wife, you would know him well enough to know what would help. You would know that space, is what he wants and you should give it.

Many men do this. Appear to decent fathers until they leave. Then the older or adults kids realise their Dad was a bit crap and it was their mother that organised things, made sure the Dad was involved. The mother was the person ensuring the relationship had at least some meaning. When the mother is out the picture the father doesn’t really know what to do, or even know much about the kids as individuals, how to meet their needs and so on. The emotional labour of the father/child relationship rests on the mother. These Dads either become disney dads or distant dads.

You want women to tell you how to fix this issue. You wanted your ex wife’s advice on it. You listen to your now wife’s opinion on how he should or shouldn’t act or feel. Whilst knowing she wouldn’t really want him around.

You are now ttc a baby, because the woman in your life wants one. You know the damage it will cause. You don’t sound like you really want another child. Which will, again, put you in the same position. A man whose primary focus is his relationship with his partner, with the kids just seen as something that you did to keep your wife happy.

On top of this, you seem to want everyone to accept you made your choice. Made the choice to cheat, to leave, to marry again, to ttc. But you won’t accept his choice on wether he wants contact. I think that is a running theme of yours. And maybe why your son has now decided he isn’t interested.

GeorgeMichaelsCat · 12/07/2023 19:46

Excellent post @PowerBMI

stargirl1701 · 12/07/2023 20:06

@PowerBMI ❤️

MrsRachelDanvers · 13/07/2023 17:32

@PowerBMI that is a very perceptive post and one which made me realise a few things.

BoohooWoohoo · 13/07/2023 17:45

@PowerBMI Another one left nodding along here- you described my ex to a tee. My oldest hasn't spoken to him in 6 years because he followed the same cliched playbook of cheating then focusing on the mistress. My ex is now 50 and hasn't been single since he was 21. He quickly went from one relationship to another and has his elderly mother and now MIL running after him too.

laceydoily · 13/07/2023 18:41

@PowerBMI

Your post is absolutely spot on.

Littlefish · 14/07/2023 17:55

Notsossuperdad · 09/07/2023 22:51

I think the predominant view seems to be that I am an awful person. I think that is harsh. I have done an awful thing in cheating which I accept but I don't think it is fair that alone defines me overall. I get that it explains my son's position and I just have to hope that in time, he can see my perspective too even if he does not agree with my choices and thinks I am disgusting. And yes, I agree he has every right to not. But I cannot never have hope as I cannot bear the thought that I might never speak to him again.

There's a lot said about my wife's age. She is mid 30s so is not the same age as my son but I honestly do not see how it is relevant anyway as her age was not a cause of my cheating. I agree that having another baby will not help things hence the timing for my advice. But do I not have a right to have another chance at happiness? That baby will not replace my son. I will love them equally. Plenty of people remarry and have more children with a new partner and are able to work things out. even when there was cheating involved. It will not stop me wanting my son in my life. The choice will be his.

Your wife is absolutely culpable in this.

No, she wasn't married, but she chose to start a relationship with a man that she knew was married.

She and her family disparage your ex wife.

She shares things on social media that she knows your son will see and be hurt by.

To be honest, the pair of you sound like horrible human beings.

You say you are sorry for your actions but then continue to compound the situation.

sonicmum2002 · 14/07/2023 19:39

This sounds awful. Your wife's attitude to your son seems really unkind. No advice, except that I sympathise with your son.

VictoriaVenkman · 14/07/2023 23:40

Notsossuperdad · 12/07/2023 09:01

Can I ask what made you change your position and start talking to your dad again?

Show quote history

@Notsossuperdad Please stop asking for solutions. You can't easily change what you did. There is no action or word that will suddenly make your son have a relationship with you again.

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 14/07/2023 23:43

You think he’s betrayed you?

give your head a wobble! 😂😂😂

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 14/07/2023 23:47

There's a lot said about my wife's age. She is mid 30s so is not the same age as my son

she’s not the same age as you either is she?

trippingthelightfantastic1 · 17/07/2023 09:28

"Would you mind if I ask a few questions? Has your son ever wavered on not wanting anything to do with his dad? Was there anything your exhusband could of done to persuade you or him to talk to him and allow him to say sorry and a move forward?"

My son has never wavered. It is a complicated story but they needed urgent contact a few years ago. That has led to sporadic contact - mainly small talk via phone as my son will not disclose anything of importance to him personally - which he hates and does his best to avoid.

There is nothing he could have done that would have persuaded me to come around the table and talk to him after his disgusting behaviour. Being horrid to me is one thing, treating my son like sh*t is an event there is no coming back from. Any sorrow and regret he felt then and now, comes from the fact that it did not turn out how he wanted. He is not sorry for what he did, he is sorry he did not get away with it. I think if you are honest with yourself, it is the same for you. The biggest issue here is your refusal to truly see and acknowledge who you are.

All you can do is wait and hope your son is happy to let you back into his life at some point. Not sure I agree with some of the earlier posters that getting rid of your present wife might help. This would make no difference to my son. He does not want to stop his father doing what he wants or what makes him happy. His issue, is knowing the type of person his father is to want and find happiness in the choices he has made in the first place.

@PowerBMI your post is extremely astute. I was devastated to be left as a single parent and I had a rose-tinted view of their relationship before this all happened. My son has been very clear that he never felt close to his father once he stopped being a little boy and could see his many controlling behaviours. These became increasingly apparent when he was a teen. Now I look back I can see that he used control tactics (mainly passive aggression, fear and loyalty), in a very subtle and manipulating way. Due to his working hours, he was not always around that much. Several people commented when he first left, that there was always an atmosphere when he was around which my son always felt but I missed. I think my ex husband's behaviour came from the fact that he did not know how to be a good parent and relied on me. In fact I would go so far as to say I don't think he even enjoyed being one. It was all about presentation management. My son and I are very close and I think unconsciously, we both saw ourselves as a family without him as in many ways we always were.

I suspect OP, that now you are out of their life they are actually glad and could think of nothing worse than you trying to snake your way back in somehow. Let your son he happy and leave him alone.

pillsthrillsandbellyache · 17/07/2023 15:15

I know this thread is a few days old but Jesus wept. The very fact that you 'enjoyed' sitting with your affair partner and her family talking shit about someone you loved for 28 YEARS, the mother of your child who did absolutely nothing wrong, tells me all I need to know about you. Leave your son alone and for God's sake do not bring another child in to this. You are incapable of giving anyone what they need. I hope you have since told your new wife how disgusted you are with yourself for allowing her and her family to stir the shit. You absolutely wrecked your ex's and sons life. What on earth gives you the right to do that to two human beings you are supposed to love?

Turfwars · 17/07/2023 16:30

Every time your wife posts a bragging social media post, you are choosing her over and above your son's feelings.

You chose to put the blame for staying in an unhappy marriage at your son's feet. When the truth is that you were fine plodding along until you met another woman.

You choose time and time again, to continue to disregard his feelings regarding contact with you when he's been clear he doesn't want to talk to you.

Why should he bother his arse about your feelings? You've never cared about his.

Wenfy · 17/07/2023 16:47

You didn’t care about him or his mother when you left. He doesn’t need to care about you now. Just focus on giving your gold digging replacement what she wants - a baby so she can have a direct tie to your money

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