A new thread for those struggling with separation

[harlemriver]

I wanted to start a new thread for those of us who are struggling to come to terms with separation/divorce, and to separate this from my personal thread (which was getting a bit outing)

maybe we can share stories and struggles here - paging @pinkrabbits39 @helpots @camedowntothewire @cakeoverexercise @couldihavethatinenglishplease @implodedlife

Although I have my own posts in Relationships & Divorce/Separation, I’d like to join in if I can? I’m 4 months into separation, waiting to move out, divorce started, relatively amicable, but my god, the ups & downs of emotions is crippling!

I go from sad to angry to bitter to resentful and back to sad again in a morning! I don’t think about much else. While agreeing it’s the right thing to divorce, I’m really struggling with the feeling of rejection. Not helped by the fact that, for now, we’re still living together and I see this person that was my husband, emotionally detached and living his life separately.

Even though I can accept that I don’t feel the same way anymore, that he has hurt me a lot over the years, that he clearly had a foot out of the door for a long time, that I suspect there is someone else but he continues to deny it even though I have said genuinely that I would rather know, despite all that, I am still struggling to process the loss of 18 years together.

I’m fixating and obsessing about how long he hasn’t loved or respected me for - it’s looking like quite a while! The trouble is you then question things about the WHOLE time you were together and wonder if it was all (except the first few years perhaps) a lie!

It’s incredibly painful and destructive.

@Grounded03 That was me and you are right. Definitely a trade off and shows you all the wonderful friends you can trust and that you can rely on yourself too.

@AloneAgain2023 - I know what you mean when you say you were wondering whether the whole marriage was a lie. My H has told me that he has issue going right back to the early days of dating, it begs the question why didn't you tell me or dump me then? Why wait several decades? He then says it want all bad. That doesn't make me feel much better. As pp have said there seems to be a switch that goes off in some people where they rewrite history to suit their own internal narrative for whatever purpose. It is hard to reason or argue with that.

@Itisallgoingtobeok There are so, so many accounts on Mumsnet of men rewriting history to suit their own narrative and justify their actions. My husband left me for a few months in 2015, and some of the criticisms he threw at me to justify his behaviour were frankly laughable - tiny & petty issues that he decided were marriage ending!
He hasn’t done it quite so much this time round, but I still believe that if he genuinely loved & cared for me as he should, most things can be worked through. The truth is though, he just wants out. And presumably wants to see what shiny new relationship can be found.
I said to him several weeks ago, why not just simply say that the feelings have sadly gone, and leave it at that instead of looking for ridiculous reasons & criticisms to want a divorce. I would far rather deal with that, and have him feel some respect for the good times we once had. Honesty & integrity go a long way! I think it did sink in!

@AloneAgain2023 I know exactly what you mean about going from one extreme emotion to the next, it's utterly exhausting. Isn't it? I too am still living with my H although he's away with work an awful lot (one of the major causes of the relationship breakdown). What I'm finding difficult is that when he's here I feel strangely more settled, even though he's not engaging with me in any way. Then he goes away and I feel bereft again. It's like I'm craving the man he used to be, and even just his physical presence gives me some respite from the pain, and perhaps a tiny modicum of hope (fruitless though I know that is). I know at some point he will leave for good and I honestly don't know how I'll cope when that day comes. I'm seeing my counsellor this week so I'm hoping she'll help me make sense of this complete confusion in my head.

@cakeoverexercise I could have written that myself, my H is also still living with us and he basically just ignores me all day. If I ask him a question he just snaps at me. He will engage and be with the kids which is important but I do feel better when he’s here even though he so grumpy and mean. When he’s not here I just feel so lonely. Such a weird feeling and thing to be experiencing. I need to find some sort of therapist that is next on my list. Do you all that have them find it has helped a lot?

I feel for all the pp's who still have to live and share space with your former partners. It would be adding an extra level of stress and heartbreak to what you are already dealing with. That would be unbelievably sad and you all have my sympathies.

I'm finding it quite hard to wrap my head around the fact that my once loving, kind and decent DP is now a cruel, deceitful and uncaring human being. I can't understand how he can now be a totally different person. I know I shouldn't be giving him that much brain space but its hard to reconcile and understand.

@ShylaA040404 - I would strongly recommend speaking with a therapist. Even just the thought of unloading on a professional has helped alot. I'm early days into seeing my therapist but I look forward to the big brain dump each appointment. She offers not only a safe place to talk but some impartial advice without any emotion attached.

Take care everyone xx

Good morning all
I feel slightly calmer today. Although still very unhappy. I have another day of work to get through but hopefully today will be easier. I'm still struggling with some of the things H has said and done. I can't understand why I don't feel more angry. I think a bit of anger might help.

Sending hugs to all for another day taking baby steps forward.

For those still living with their partners you have my respect. I don't know how you manage that. I have moved out and despite being heartbroken it is easier apart. It takes away the dreadful atmosphere and that is an improvement on what I admit is a horrible situation.

@ShylaA040404 Yes, I second @purpleandpurple - a therapist has been invaluable for me. I've got lots of friends who are all happy to listen and have varying degrees of advice, but my therapist is the only one I feel I can really dump everything on without feeling like I'm imposing. She also almost always has very good impartial advice. But you do need to find someone experienced and who you click with. It took me a few attempts to find the right one.

Can I join too?
Been married 12 years together 17.
Husband had a terrible time in February at work and then started to spiral. Totally miserable not engaging. Changed his what app from a pic or us started the usual wearing nice clothes doing his hair stopped phoning me every day at lunch like his done for 16 years going out more so I checked his phone and there is was the messages from a girl at work. Nothing sexual and because I work there I asked her outright why she's messaging my husband late at night and why had he been at her house at 1in the morning (this is an another story) she was totally horrified that I could possibly think she liked him anything more than friends my husbands doesn't had friends he never has had. And now he's basically waiting for me to say I've had enough.
I told him I read his messages and he said he didn't think he could get over the break in trust. I said I don't think I can get over you making me feel like I was losing my mind to actually find messages you arsehole
I have no money and no were to life I gave up everything to raise our child while he worked in the industry I loved for years.
I have never been this scared x

@Lockeddownagain - I read your post and couldn't read and run. I'm so sorry for what you are going through. The combination of emotional and practical turmoil is dreadful. As a starting point could you find a solicitor who gives the first session free? This might help elevate your worries about the financial situation. You can't be left with nothing. As for the emotional impact I'm afraid I don't have a solution other than managing one foot in front of the other and getting through each hour, hour by hour.
I'm sending hugs your way.

Hi all, been a bit quiet but just catching up.

my STBXH, despite knowing I had a MH crisis on Saturday, had a mediator contact me yesterday to say my H had had his initial assessment meeting and inviting me to join in. So I spoke with him and was met with just a barrage of pure verbal abuse. He’s refusing to talk to me about the financial outcome or mediation but told my 20yr old DD that he’ll discuss things with her!

I was so angry last night, I feel that he only married me because he thought it was the next step and all his mates were doing it. Can’t believe I’ve had so much faith in a man who has stolen 13 years from me

hoping everyone holds up as much as you can today x

Welcome to the shittiest club to be in @Lockeddownagain. I can’t believe your H had the audacity to say you broke HIS trust when HE is the one messaging other women. Sometimes I think these men need a good long hard look in the mirror. What the f!

i’m so happy when I’m at work, it’s a blissful distraction from the shit show that is my life right now

Sorry that your STBXH is still being so unkind @PotsnPan It must be very painful for you.

@ShylaA040404 I have been seeing a therapist and it has been so so helpful . I feel very lucky that I found just the right person for this time. I've tried counselling in the past and it's been useless - one session was spent with me giving advice on the counsellor's nephew's career plans! But I've now found that the right person can really bring clarity. Definitely worth doing, and definitely worth trying more than one person if you don't feel it clicking on the first session.

There's been an unexpected development from my side, as I had a long phone conversation with my H last night. He had found my other solo thread on separation, which I told him about on the night I found his phone messages ("70 women on MN have told me to leave you"!) I don't think he knows about this thread - if he does and is reading, please stop now! I want to keep this space of support and honesty.

Anyway, I asked MNHQ to take that thread down but it took a few hours for them to do so. He had already found it by that time. It seems to have had a really profound effect, to see our relationship and my feelings really laid out - and to see the unanimous responses saying 'leave leave leave', 'he doesn't care about you', 'this is never going to improve' 'your life will be so much better alone'. For the first time he fully acknowledged a range of issues that have affected our marriage and said he is going to get professional help to deal with then. He also fully acknowledged that he has not been a good husband for a long time and that I have been suffering as a result.

It was not at all what I was expecting after the crazy turmoil of the last few days but it's very far from a reconciliation. He is still in a very mixed up place and so am I. It does seem the phone messages that I found are not as 'bad' as I thought, in the sense that it isn't a true relationship and he certainly isn't leaving me to go into that relationship (as I have been imagining) but it is obviously a lot more than nothing and I can't forget it easily.

I also feel like the last few months have made me really look closely at what I want and I'm not in any hurry to go backwards. I don't want getting back together to become a goal or desire in any way - I want to keep my focus on building a life that I want, not falling back into old patterns. But I would be very glad if we could separate as I had hoped, with good will and empathy rather than the burn-down-the-house betrayal of recent days. I feel like I've had another round of mental whiplash in 'versions of our marriage' - version 1 was he is a basically decent guy but it's a terrible marriage and he will never change; version 2 was he is not a decent guy at all and I will never have any contact with him again; and now version 3 - he is a decent guy but it is a terrible marriage. He wants to change and may be able to to - but the outcome of that is not predictable and may not lead back to 'us'.

We are going to meet and talk in a neutral place later this week and I am continuing with my plan to go away for the next two months. My feeling at this point is that we both use that time to figure out what we want, then check in after those two months and make a final decision about submitting the divorce application. But will see how the conversation goes.

I'm ok with not getting back together - very ok I think. But I feel so so so much calmer for having had that conversation and knowing that while he has been selfish and disengaged and checked-out, he hasn't been acting from the place of cruelty and callousness that I've been imagining. I finally slept last night, have been able to eat today and have lost the manic feeling that I've had for days. Heartfelt thoughts to everyone who is in that state of mind today.

I've also come across this book that looks like it might be helpful for many of us - not read it yet but plan to order it. The title is 'Crazy Time', which is exactly what the last weeks/months have felt like! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crazy-Time-Surviving-Divorce-Building-dp-0062337408/dp/0062337408/

Just checking in, the posts from others make me so sad. For those still living with ex’s you have my upmost respect, I couldn’t do it.
I haven’t cried yet today although feel constantly close to tears.
The worst for me is that 3 days ago our relationship was truly good. I do think his violence towards ds17 was a momentary lapse but to be honest that makes it worse. That he would throw our life together as a family away rather than control himself or walk away is crushing. That ds10 now has to shuffle between two homes breaks my heart.
I have to keep telling myself that there would never be trust, even if ds17 found away to forgive ex we could never rebuild as I wouldn’t ever feel I could leave them in the house together and that’s no way to live. So for that reason, that he tried to hurt my son, I will never forgive him. I still love him, at this point I think I always will but I also feel such anger that he didn’t care enough about all of us to be a better person

@harlemriver It was fascinating reading your post, and I can 100% see how that would bring about a sort of calmness, even if it doesn’t mean a complete 180 back into the marriage.

I really do believe that we would just like the feeling of acknowledgement about how WE are being made to feel, and to think we are being heard during separation / divorce. So often, men are so desperate to justify their own behaviour and emotions that they give knee jerk answers to our questions or our criticism of them, and refuse to really see what we are going through.

Your description of ‘mental whiplash’ really resonated too - I have differing versions of my marriage / husband that can change umpteen times during a week! Which in itself can be exhausting. Of course it makes it slightly easier if we can frame the whole thing as ‘my husband is a terrible person who has treated me badly, whereas I’m a good wife who has done nothing wrong’. Sometimes it genuinely will be that scenario but possibly more often than not it isn’t that black & white. Most men, although sadly they often seem comfortable with lying & cheating, are not always terrible people.

In some ways I find it better / easier to acknowledge my own parts in the marriage not working. I never lied or cheated & had a level of integrity that sadly he didn’t, BUT it isn’t true to say he’s an out & out bastard! It would be neater if I could say that!

In your case, I can totally imagine how it must have felt to have him read your post and acknowledge how YOU were feeling. It could even maybe be described as ‘fair play to him’. I suspect some men (possibly mine?) would read my post and STILL stubbornly refuse to accept they might be in the wrong in any way! I have had a few conversations with my husband over the last 3 months where I have felt better afterwards, but others where I have felt worse!

I don’t know you but I feel your relief, it must feel like a huge ‘exhale’!

thanks @AloneAgain2023 yes I did appreciate and respect his willingness to acknowledge what he'd read. It was exactly like a big exhale, because it confirmed that he really does have empathy and care for me, which in the past few days I thought had all been a big fat lie. Another loop in this rollercoaster!

It really is hard to figure out what the 'truth' is in these relationship dynamics. I've been trying to stop myself from thinking about it as I fixate and go round and round and round. I tell myself that I'm living out a 'marriage plot' right now and at this stage in the book it's not quite clear what kind of story it is. It needs time/more information for that to be clear. For now, I just have to accept where I'm at and work to change the future chapters. It's a cheesy metaphor but it is working for me.

@Lockeddownagain I’m so sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately it sounds so familiar, especially the part where he is saying you betrayed his trust. Im struggling at the moment too but just wanted to send you my support!

@harlemriver I also am so happy you have found a sort of calm and your husband has in a way come back to reality a bit. That must feel very good to be validated like that, no matter what the outcome is. I actually told my husband I was posting on a forum but didn’t tell him which, and he’s curious to hear what people say. I think he sort of acknowledges he’s a jerk but seems to feel like he has no choice in his own actions or happiness. Last night he told me if he doesn’t see other people he is “going to have a heart attack.” I asked him if he needed me to take him to the hospital. He really wants me to be okay with him leaving and I am not; and I want him to be okay with trying to work on our marriage and he just isn’t so we are still at an impasse. Like @AloneAgain2023 said, I’m definitely not innocent in all of this. I could have done a much better job prioritizing him and our relationship although I think most people would acknowledge that’s hard with young kids. But no doubt I could have done a much better job and that part is on me. We had some family over for the holiday and later we are going to his family and I find these things very torturous right now but preferable to being alone, so along I will go. Sending support to all today.

I agree it's important to reflect on our own role and the dynamics of the relationship @ShylaA040404 and @AloneAgain2023 but I took to heart the advice of my wise old men at the gym yesterday - the guilty party will always try to make you feel that you are responsible. We don't need to/shouldn't take responsibility for someone else's hurtful choices. It's ok to just protect ourselves and do whatever we need to feel better, rather than adding to the pain by deciding we were actually responsible.

(also, if it helps @ShylaA040404 , from this random internet stranger, your husband's demands here sound totally unreasonable. You don't need to take responsibility for that and it doesn't sound like there's much you can do to change it so I think you are doing the very best you can with the position he has put you in)

@harlemriver very true. And my H will tell me it’s not my fault because of course there was nothing I could do since he never loved me or had a sexual connection with me any time in these 17 years we’ve been together. Which makes me feel even worse but I have got to just focus on myself. I identify a lot with the other posters who are just so surprised their Hs don’t care about their suffering. I do think it must be a phenomenon where they turn that switch off to move on. And I do appreciate you saying what he wants is unreasonable. Sometimes it does really help to hear it from a third party because I can convince myself I’m the unreasonable one after I talk to him!

@ShylaA040404 thats interesting you say after your conversation you feel like you are the one being unreasonable.
that’s how I feel…when I’m away or on my own, or talk to the counsellor or friends, it all makes perfect sense what I want, what I’m unhappy with. But as soon as I talk to H, I feel like I’m making up all the issues we have, feeling unwanted for years, no sex life, his stubbornness and also having to be right, all the other bits…he says it never happened?!
weirdly my counsellor actually told him he was gaslighting me during one session…so I wonder if that’s what happening here for you? It helps to know you aren’t imagining things!!