A new thread for those struggling with separation

[harlemriver]

I wanted to start a new thread for those of us who are struggling to come to terms with separation/divorce, and to separate this from my personal thread (which was getting a bit outing)

maybe we can share stories and struggles here - paging @pinkrabbits39 @helpots @camedowntothewire @cakeoverexercise @couldihavethatinenglishplease @implodedlife

Hi Both - I'm a divorce/family law practitioner (and also just had my own divorce issued - devastated but had to do it to try and take back a bit of control). I can't give legal advice on this forum but I can tell you the procedure.

If you put your husband's email address, the divorce will be issued to both his email and to the address that you put down. So I'd be tempted to put the OW address, so that you're making it clear that you know that they're cohabiting. Online divorces are currently taking about 3 weeks to be issued. You can then apply for the next stage, the Conditional Order, 20 weeks after your application is issued (this used to be called the Decree Nisi). Make sure that you're sorting out the finances before you apply for the Conditional Order.

Re. the Form E - if your H is cohabiting, then yes, you need to pursue this. Whilst OW's finances won't be taken into account as thoroughly as your H, what it does mean is that your H's household has 2 incomes - the overriding concern of the law when making financial orders is that the needs of any minor children are met (in terms of housing and lifestyle etc.) and then the parties to the marriage (not the OW or her children) and therefore his need is satisfied more than yours by virtue of the two incomes into the household. Hope this helps.

Bemused myself writing this - on the one hand I'm a clear level headed legal professional with 13 years post qualification experience under my belt and have a really good reputation in my area, and the other, I'm unable to accept the end of my own marriage and am seeking and relying upon the guidance of tarot readers - barmy!

@PotsnPan

Thanks for replying. The massive issue I'm having is my ex DH refusing to communicate at all about anything. He is self employed but it's complicated as the business is a partnership and I know he declares his earnings (legally dione through the accountant) as being less than they are. There is more than one property involved. I highly doubt he will willingly complete, or be honest, on the Form E.

Last year he said he'd be happy to sort out the finances between ourselves and then each get our own sols to draft proposals and a consent order. Now he refuses to reply to anything. I really don't want to have to use a solicitor for everything as I can see it costing £20-30k.

@PotsnPan

"Bemused myself writing this - on the one hand I'm a clear level headed legal professional with 13 years post qualification experience under my belt and have a really good reputation in my area, and the other, I'm unable to accept the end of my own marriage and am seeking and relying upon the guidance of tarot readers - barmy!"

Re the above I feel the same. I'm usually so strong, don't get overly emotional, good with finances and always organised everything. I spent most of last year just about managing day to day, I cried at the drop of a hat and I still go around in circles trying to decide how to proceed. I hate my DH for what he has done and all the hurt he's caused, yet wish we could be back together as if nothings happened. I feel like I'm going mad!

@exDHisatwat exactly how I feel although we've been separated just over 4 months, it is on my mind constantly and it is driving me mental - like you, I just want 'us' back but when I think about the reality of that, then I know that it wouldn't be healthy, at least not at the moment. My husband has cut me off completely, after 13 years and everything that we've been through together - he's brought my daughter up with me since she was a little girl, she's an adult now and still in contact with him. I keep having flashback to our very happy times, I miss that man and our life together so much, I just want it back so badly, even though my husband has treated me terribly these last few months, some of the things that he's said to me are bizarre and extremely hurtful.

Re. your husband's disclosure, don't go down the voluntary disclosure root, they always suggest this when they're trying to hide assets. I know that solicitors' fees are extortionate - I've decided to get advice outside of my Firm (I don't trust myself to do it myself even though I've been doing this for years!) and I can't afford their fees either.

At the moment, I'm just taking some time out until I decide what the next step is.

And all the time, obsessing over these bloody tarot readings (both were the same, both gave me hope, both driving me nuts) - what has happened to me?!

@PotsnPan

I feel like I must be pissing my friends off as I go on about what's happened so much. I need to move on but because he refuses to communicate at all I feel stuck.

Tbh my preference is for us to sort out the finances without solicitors. I honestly don't care what he earns, what the business is worth or if he has hidden assets. If he would agree to leave my property out of things and agree to me buying him out of the marital home using the proceeds then I'm happy to leave the business and whatever else he has out of it. I just want things settled so I can move on.

My husband slated our entire life together, said he'd never been happy and tried to deny there was anyone else involved. Within the day he'd admitted to an affair. His behaviour ever since has been mostly awful. I don't know him anymore. His family have cut me off for no reason.

I've started believing in karma when I always thought it was a load of crap ha.

@exDHisatwat your husband and his family sound similar to me and I wonder whether it's the completely being cut off that prolongs our agony? I have given this man and his family 13 years of my life, a beautiful daughter, and I have done absolutely nothing to deserve being completely cut off like this, it has made me quite ill. I'm blocked for all methods of communication, I'm in a house that has leaks etc, my daughter crying to me that she misses her family and doesn't want to lose her home, dealing with my own grief and then my DD telling me that he seems as miserable as he did before he left, so what is the point? I married for life, and could have walked out many times but decided that my vows meant something to me.

Make sure you get what you deserve - I see too many female clients take a lot less than what they're entitled to just to get over the pain but it's not always the best outcome long term.

I have found it very hard to deal with being completely ignored after being together over 18 years. I have sent so many texts to try to get him to talk. I feel like I'm going mad. We have 2 children who he and his parent have not seen in over a year and they don't seem to care. I honestly wonder how I didn't realise what they were like before. It's bizarre. You'd think I was the one who'd had an affair.

I'll be happy and fine financially if I can get the house. Neither of us have pensions. Like you though our house needs some repairs, which I'm now left having to deal with. My daughters have needed counselling and what he has done will most likely impact them for a very long time. I don't know how he lives with himself. When I've seen him he hasn't looked happy, but his mood and actions very much depend on how things are going with the OW.

@PotsnPan Oh I doubt she's been through it herself although hard to say. She's a tough old broad, I promised my H that I would give her one more session although I have told him I feel like she's biased against me, no surprise that he doesn't agree. However, some of it might be because he was the one who approached her and he told her what he wanted which was counseling on how a "separation" would look. So, she's gearing things towards that even though that's not necessarily what I want.

I think our situations have many parallels as I am also in the legal field although with civil litigation as we say here, so I don't have anything to do with divorces or know very much about them. But, during our counseling session on Friday this counsellor did challenge my H on what seeing other women would do and he admitted essentially it is an easy fix to make him feel like a "man" because he feels (and rightly so with respect to his parents) that he never had a say in a lot of things growing up and now he feels like a failure (typical mid-life crisis). He is numb to everything, super depressed and feels ashamed that he can't give me and his kids the life he wants to. But, he just started a new business a year ago and has crazy expectations. In any event, this counsellor said if we separate he shouldn't see other people, and he acknowledged that was probably a bad idea to see other people, which is all I wanted.

Honestly, there are things that he needs to figure out about himself, he doesn't even know what he likes to do for fun, he's just miserable and lacks the wherewithal to deal with anything. I don't know that this "reveal" helps me feel better but it does affirm that what is going on (1) isn't going to be cured by some sexual connection and (2) really doesn't involve me. My personal counsellor keeps preaching the three Cs, if you didn't "cause" it you can't "change" or "control" it. Trying to remember that is hard.

All that to say, I think if my H had the wherewithal to leave, I would be in the same situation as you, hoping and wishing for my old H who used to be a wonderful person, a great dad and good partner. And I know dealing with the relationship your DD has with him is an added complication so I feel for you on that. I too could have walked out on my H long ago as he is certianly not adding very much to my life, but also felt the same as you that my vows meant something. And then to listen to him say he doesn't even know why he married me, it is just gut wrenching. I do sometimes wish to fast forward a year or two to come out on the other side of this and not have to deal with the horrible day-to-day. It is really starting to wear on me.

Hello all @ShylaA040404 sorry that the counselling is difficult. I hope it manages to get some results for you in the areas that you need to resolve.

Also still struggling a bit here. I am starting to grasp how entirely my stbxh has checked out. Just six weeks ago I thought that he still loved me and now I realise that he feels absolutely nothing for me. And who knows how long that has been the case? It's very hard to absorb and makes me feel like a fool for staying in this relationship for so long. He doesn't contact me at all and when I have tried to explain to him how much pain and turmoil I have been in he just doesn't respond. It's like he's packed our life up in a box and filed it away in his brain never to be reopened - complete compartmentalisation.

It's very painful, and I am starting to feel huge regret at the years I have lost. Is anyone else struggling with regret? How are you coping with it?

@harlemriver - I have massive regrets too. Regret that I let H convince me so much was my fault and I had to change to meet ever moving goal posts. How to get through it? I have no idea. I've started by looking after myself, to remind myself that I am worth looking after and deserve healthy food and gentle exercise. It's a small thing but that's what I'm hanging on to at the moment.

I have also come to the conclusion that I made the decisions I did in a difficult situation and at the time they seemed the right thing to do. I can't beat up "past me" for that. I'm trying to be kind to "past me" and "current me" so "future me" can thrive. It's not easy though.

Sending hugs.

Hi @harlemriver I’m so sorry you are feeling this way. I wish I could say I understood how ex-partners behave but I am afraid I am still trying to figure that out. I think that perhaps it is a natural feeling to hope (and cling onto) the happy times and the positive part of the relationship and to believe that if both parties want to build and repair it, it can be done. I know that’s how I feel. But sadly we cannot control how others feel and if they are in a different place to us, and have checked out or moved on, then we will struggle to change that. But it is a gut wrenchingly sad process to come to terms with. I am only one week in and am still sat squarely in denial, hoping that my partner will return from walking out and we can reconcile. But part of my logical self is whispering that may not be the case. I think the reality is that the person who chose to leave or separate has usually had longer to process and come to terms with the decision before they make it. Whereas for me (and perhaps you) it was a bolt from the blue, which we then have to digest. I don’t want to taint the last few years of my relationship as I was happy, even if he wasn’t. So I don’t want to regret that. But I can understand how you feel that way. It is so very hard.

Hello all. How is everyone doing? No real news here other than I seem to have hit the bottom again. I am struggling not to cry in public and my emotions are just overwhelming me. I know it will pass in time but my goodness it's hard.

Sending hugs to all.

@Itisallgoingtobeok Sorry to hear you are having an emotional time. I am sort of the opposite right now, I feel very numb. I am not sure which I prefer honestly but you are right this is all just so hard. Hang in there and I plan on doing the same. I'm actually off to see my counsellor in a little bit which I am sure will have the effect of turning all my emotions back on.

@ShylaA040404 - I hope the counselling goes well. A friend gave me a talking to today. She was kind but firm. She told me that it was ok to be hurt beyond belief but to try to look forward if I can otherwise I'm wasting my life over H and he's had enough impact already. She's very straight talking!
Hugs to all.

Anybody else had a really traumatic experience with meditation??? Not only did it cost me a stupid amount of money i naively realised within 5 mins of sitting at the table (naively thinking the 3 of us would try & resolve our situation fairly) that I was completely on my own & the person I had married & on my side for the last 22 years of my life was now sadly my complete enemy trying to undermine my character & try & leave me as financially destitute as possible!!

Hello all. I hope everyone is ok today. Today has been the first day that when I thought about divorce it didn't feel like a complete disaster. Admittedly that was only for a few minutes but I did, very briefly, see a future. I'm going to take that as progress.
Hugs to all.

Hope everyone is doing ok.

I have been on holiday this week and it was a struggle. First holiday without him and it was awful. My parents told me today that I should be getting over this now because he clearly doesn't care. It was hurtful to hear and now I am just sat in floods of tears again.

Do any of you really feel that things are improving for you at all.

@Dottie4 Oh that’s tough for you! I never think it’s helpful for anyone to say ‘you should be over it by now’. There is no definitive timeline for you to be ‘over it’. It isn’t ever an uphill line, it goes up a bit then back down a bit depending on the moment, the day, the week etc.

Things like holidays, Christmas, birthdays, anniversaries, even weekends, are all reminders of our different life and the person that’s missing from it.

Please don’t let anyone convince you that at a particular time, you’ll be ‘over it’. You absolutely WILL get there, but you alone will know as each improving day arrives. There will be tiny flickers of hope for the future, and the flickers will come and go. And then they will get longer and brighter.

As for the part about ‘he clearly doesn’t care’, only you know your exact situation but I guess you already know that men seem able to switch off in a way that is baffling and devastating in equal to us. There’s no end of proof of that here on Mumsnet.

YOU WILL GET THERE. But don’t be hard on yourself for how long it takes. That’s your journey and no one else can tell you how long or short it is.

Friday night hugs 💐💐

@Dottie4 … baffling and devastating in equal measure to us. (trying to type too quick!) 🙄

Hi All, still in a mess - is this normal after nearly 5 months?

After repeatedly being told he wanted a divorce, I filed, it was issued, he took a week to respond - received a solicitors letter on Monday to tell me that he’s drastically cutting his financial contribution towards the house, following me filing the divorce - this is despite him assuring me and DD that he would continue paying until she finishes uni next year. He’s told DD that he had to get legal advice because I’d filed the divorce!? WTF? It’s wrecking my head again. I don’t want a divorce, but wanted to take back some control

and so I’ve tried to reach out to him to ask if this is really what he wants - received correspondence from his solicitors telling me that I’m to only contact them and not him - even had to sort out a household bill via them yesterday - must be costing him a fortune

so upset, feel as though this is neverending

@PotsnPan that sounds really hard to deal with, I’m so sorry you’re going through all that. I know we all keep repeating how it’s so hurtful, devastating, and confusing to see these changes in the men we were once so close to, but it REALLY is.

I’m now 5 months on from the decision to separate, still living together, and I now have a possible moving date, but I still have these waves of ‘what the hell just happened, and how did we get here’.

I’m sat here now sad and tearful, although only yesterday I had a spell of positivity looking forward to moving out. Husband is downstairs doing his own thing, and not remotely bothered how isolated I might be feeling up here. And I STILL can’t grasp how thoroughly he has switched off.

I certainly wouldn’t want him back, he really isn’t the person I met and the reality of him is not the same as my idea of him. He can be cold and has convinced himself that everything has been my fault. Whereas of course the reality is very different - he has actually lied and cheated and still thinks he has some kind of moral high ground!

@PotsnPan I really hope for you that some kind of peace arrives. You may still have more turbulence for a while, and it’s so cruel and unnecessary for your H to behave this way. And I’ll add cowardly and juvenile too.

All the best wishes in the world for you 🙏💐

@PotsnPan I'm not yet five months in but I definitely think still being in the thick of it at five months is not abnormal. I just listened to a podcast where they were saying that it takes half the time you were in a relationship to be "truly" over it. Not that long to move on but in order to move past it. Who knows if that is true but I am truly sorry this is happening to you and I can't imagine having to communicate through his solicitors is making anything easier for you. I am with @AloneAgain2023 in that is it so cruel and unnecessary for your H to behave this way. Honestly, I feel like for a lot of us so much of this is made harder not necessarily by the decisions these men are making but by how they are acting while doing it. Also, @AloneAgain2023 I am sorry you are struggling too, I think it is so challenging living with someone while ending your relationship and something I struggle with as well. All my wishes for you that you can hang on to your moment of positivity and that those moments only grow for you.

For my part, my H is participating in cruel punishment of his own. After telling me he is done with our marriage and being deeply depressed and numb to everything, he has confessed he plans on doing nothing about it and it is really just up to me how long I can take this situation. He professes to be helpless to do anything to improve his life while simultaneously being completely numb to our three kids and alternating between being a zombie or a jerk to me. He told me absent some change in circumstances (money and success in his career or lack thereof is a big part of all of this for him too) he doesn't see his attitude changing but again, will do absolutely nothing to change anything. He acknowledges he is responsible for his behavior but basically abdicates all control for what he does. I did "ambush" him in our couples therapy yesterday (based on advice from my therapist) about increasing his depression medication. Apparently the couples therapist we see says the dose he is on is so low its as if he is taking nothing. He promised he would bring this up with his doctor next week but says he doesn't see anything coming of it because "these drugs don't work better than a placebo". UGH. Sorry for my long rant, but my patience is running very thin with this midlife crisis/man tantrum and I am OVER IT.

@ShylaA040404 - it sounds as though you are doing well to keep going to the couples counselling. It sounds really hard work. There are similarities with my H. I am sure he is clinically depressed but won’t see a doctor and talks about everything being my fault. We have been apart for months now he is no happier, so clearly living with me wasn’t the issue he thought it was. He hasn’t admitted as much but his lack of career progression is obviously an issue for him. Mine has gone a lot better, but that’s just the way life is sometimes.

I’m going thought wild ups and downs now. The ups seem to get me back to a near normal state for a few hours, and then I crash back down to terrible lows. I am hoping this is just the next phase of what ever hell we are going though and that it is forward movement rather than backward.

@PotsnPan - I am really sorry to hear about the latest behaviour from your H. I don’t know what gets into them at all. It’s hurtful and unnecessary. Hang on in there, it will get better.

Sending hugs to all.

@ShylaA040404 - what was the podcast your weee listening to? It sounds interesting.

Has anyone had the situation where their other half leaves them in limbo as to whether they want to be in the relationship or not?! My partner left two weeks ago. He “doesn’t know” if he wants to come back, or if he loves me. I’ve said if he thinks he is being kind by saying it’s temporary when it’s permanent, it isn’t kind. It’s horrific. I am 42 and we have a two year old. I flip between mourning the relationship and hope we might reconcile. It’s absolute cruelty. All whilst trying to continue to work and keep a brave face for my daughter. It’s so hard.