Parental responsibility and changing surnames

[LivingTheLifeofMum]

I have two primary aged DC from a previous relationship which ended when DC were very young. DC have their dad's surname. They live with me as per court order and have contact with their dad.

Fast forward several years and I'm married to DH, we have a child together and we'd like us all to have the same surname.

DH has grown up as a father figure to DC and he would also love to have parental responsibility for them.

So what I'm asking you wise bunch is: do any of you have any experience of applying or gaining parental responsibility for a step parent and / or changing your children's surname. We'd like to know if it's worth applying for and how likely we are to succeed.

Family solicitor here.
Court extremely unlikely to change the surname in the circumstances you describe although adding your DH’s surname to make it double barrelled might be ok.
You’re relatively likely to be able to get step parent PR however you mentioned that the court might be reluctant as you and your DH would outnumber the father in decision making. That’s not how PR works. You and DH wouldn’t get a deciding vote, all three must agree.
The other note of caution I would sound is the F taking the opportunity to use new court proceedings as a springboard to ask the court to change anything he isn’t happy with about contact. If he previously didn’t get as much as he hoped and the children are now older, he may try to increase because you’re in a court process anyway. If he made an application it would be heard with yours.

[quote RussianSpy101]@LivingTheLifeofMum how he treated you and how much he earns and pays is completely irrelevant. The fact is, your husband isn’t their dad and he doesn’t need parental responsibility. Why would young children need to have the same surname as a man they’re not related too?[/quote]
Because they are getting older and questioning things more, and they have a different surname to their younger sibling (my child with DH). I'd have liked us to all have that same name, even if it meant double barrelling to keep their dad's name in there too.

I'd even be happy if they had my maiden name in there somehow. I just think it is unfair post split that they just have their dad's surname when their residence is with me.

@LivingTheLifeofMum but surely you just answer their question with “you have your dads name and this baby has their dads name” it’s not complicated.

@LivingTheLifeofMum good point about “fair” you already have them more than their dad. Really it’s even more important they retain that link with their dad instead of having it taken away.

@Familylawso1icitor

Family solicitor here. Court extremely unlikely to change the surname in the circumstances you describe although adding your DH’s surname to make it double barrelled might be ok. You’re relatively likely to be able to get step parent PR however you mentioned that the court might be reluctant as you and your DH would outnumber the father in decision making. That’s not how PR works. You and DH wouldn’t get a deciding vote, all three must agree. The other note of caution I would sound is the F taking the opportunity to use new court proceedings as a springboard to ask the court to change anything he isn’t happy with about contact. If he previously didn’t get as much as he hoped and the children are now older, he may try to increase because you’re in a court process anyway. If he made an application it would be heard with yours.

Thank you, that's really helpful. I wasn't sure how a Court would potentially view an application to add my married name to the equation. I appreciate you clarifying how PR works with three people, too.

F has increased his contact slightly not long ago by mutual consent so I don't think he'd use the Court process as a springboard this time round but it's a valid point as I also need to consider he might try to retaliate in some way! Or just make my co-parenting life with him even more frosty and miserable.

I think it’s unfair post split that they have their Dads surname when their residence is with me

But OP, their dad wanted 3 nights a week with them which you battled against through the courts (the courts did not force you to refuse this that’s not how it works). So the only reason their residence is primarily with you and not their Dad is because you wanted it that way against his wishes - so for you to now say that is a “fair” reason for you to change their names to your new husbands as some kind of moral justification is ridiculous.

@Ploppingperp06 completely agree.

my own solicitor seemed to think we had a good chance to obtain additional PR for my DH when I asked a few years ago.

Under which grounds please?

OP - I suspect your kids are questioning things more because you have presented your DH as their new dad, got them to call him dad etc, basically you have been doing parental alienation. It is no wonder they are confused!

If you responded in a matter of fact, yes, you have a different name because you have your dad's name, they would likely be fine with it. It's because you seem very reluctant to really accept that your DH is their step father not their father that they are having these problems.

Of course life would be easier for you if your ex didn't exist and your children all had the same dad and the same name, I honestly get why you would want that, but it's not what you have and you are not being a good mother by not accepting it and communicating it to your kids.

[quote LivingTheLifeofMum]@Unknown83

You don't know me but you have decided to make an assumption about my character based on my past which you know nothing about.

The violent episode was prior to the separation and there was physical photographic evidence that was provided to the police. The reason I didn't bring all this up in Court was on the advice of my solicitor (I was not entitled to Legal Aid) as she basically said that short of my ex being a murderer, he would get contact regardless. This was especially true as he hadn't physically harmed the children.

[/quote]
I've made a decision based on the person you are presenting yourself to be here. I don't know you beyond that.

Now you've further added to the story that the alleged physical altercation was never discussed in a court room despite there being physical evidence. Are you seriously expecting me to believe that your ex hit you and your solicitor told you not to bring it up in a court room? Where on earth did you find this solicitor, the 17th century?

@Lalala1

OP just ignore *@Unknown83* it’s not worth the typing he hasn’t walked in your shoes only you know

U haven’t needlessly antagonised your ex over this from your posts it sounds like you’ve not been mentioned it to your ex so @unknown83 is making it up as he goes along .U came asking for advice about changing their surname and u have been gave good advice and you have took that advice by the sounds of it. Good luck to you and your kids in the future

She plans to needlessly antagonise her ex over a superficial name change and to give another man parental responsibility.

A thought has just occurred to me. @LivingTheLifeofMum are you doing this to insure yourself? Are you doing this to make your DCs "children of the family" and your current husband liable for their future needs in the event of divorce?

That's the only tangible reason I can think of for the change.

@Unknown83

Where has she said she plans on antagonising her ex to change the DCs surname?? She not even spoke to her ex about it yet never mind antagonised him about it! She’s asked for advice on here that’s it! U have no idea what she plans to do and you have judged her and accused her of many things with no basis for your accusations. Wether u choose to believe what she has posted about her EXP that’s your choice but u have no right to be as nasty as you have been and turning the accusations on her.
She’s already said she has took the advice on the name change and will wait till they are older to decide so get off her case!

And if she wants to go to court to ask to get her DH PR then she can it doesn’t mean she will or that she’s alienating the kids from her ex he will still be their father with PR regardless.

@Unknown83

And a lot of solicitors will tell dv victims not to bring up dv in family court as they don’t like it unless there is a risk or previous abuse to the children. Not all abuse is reported for various reasons doesn’t mean it never happened! U sound like your from the 17th century tbh

[quote Lalala1]@Unknown83

Where has she said she plans on antagonising her ex to change the DCs surname?? She not even spoke to her ex about it yet never mind antagonised him about it! She’s asked for advice on here that’s it! U have no idea what she plans to do and you have judged her and accused her of many things with no basis for your accusations. Wether u choose to believe what she has posted about her EXP that’s your choice but u have no right to be as nasty as you have been and turning the accusations on her.
She’s already said she has took the advice on the name change and will wait till they are older to decide so get off her case!

And if she wants to go to court to ask to get her DH PR then she can it doesn’t mean she will or that she’s alienating the kids from her ex he will still be their father with PR regardless.[/quote]
There's a clear pattern of behaviour evident in her posts and her intent. To be honest, I'm going lightly compared to what a barrister would do!

I will challenge anyone who is considering the abuse of the court system for frivolous or antagonistic reasons because of the very real damage this does to the people who really need it. There are people out there who, along with their children, have been beaten black and blue by an abusive and violent ex who have to wait for a very long time for their final hearing because of people who follow through on the kind of thing the OP is suggesting which is basically to use the court system to control and provoke their ex for no tangible reason. Luckily based on the advice given here she has seen sense.

Worse still, genuine victims are finding it harder to be believed because of the growth in frivolous claims of abuse that began to rise after LASPO.

@Lalala1

Thank you for your support and solidarity. Unknown83 is vicious and after reading how he has described his ex wife in his post I have no wish to engage in any conversation with him.

You are correct. The way Courts deal with things change all the time and at the time I was told that we could go through the emotional abuse in Court (fact finding?) but that would just prolong the case when the reality was, as the dv was between me and exP, it would have had (at the time) had little effect on any contact ruling for him and the children as he had not harmed the children (directly). I was so physically and mentally drained at the time that the last thing I wanted was to prolong proceedings. Three hearings was enough as it was!

I hear things have changed in the last few years re: emotional abuse, as a few friends have advised acquaintances in similar situations to get in touch with me for support. Not before time!! Too late for me but I'm pleased that it's finally changed to support victims, with police now able to prosecute without the go-ahead from the victim from what I understand. I had support from various organisations but the understanding of EA in Court and how the Courts dealt with these cases a few years ago was only really starting to take shape, emotional abuse had only recently been made a crime then xx

Why don't you all change your surname to YOUR family name?
Then everyone would share a name, it wouldn't be one that your ex could object to (especially as you weren't married when your DCs were born).
If this went to court then it seems really unlikely they'd object.

Alternatives might be:
You and DH double barrel your family name and his family name, youngest DC does the same, older two have your family name.
DH double barrels as does youngest, everyone else has your family name.
Adults double barrel, children have your family name.

Or are we going to get into "I don't like my name" or "DH would never go for that" sexist excuses?

Pls don't do this. I know more than one person who has assigned parental responsibility to a step parent and then been threatened with losing custody of their own child when they broke up!! Absolutely mad, your husband doesn't need PR, you are perfectly capable of signing the odd form!!

As for the last names...I'm widowed, kids have late husband's name (I didn't change mine) and partner lives with us, different name again,

3 last names, no less a family, zero issues.

@LivingTheLifeofMum

No need to thank me

I hate when people just jump on posts to attack the op when it’s not justified!

I’ve gave u my advice on what u asked the surname I know how it feels when you all have different surnames in the same household but it’s not unusual now and like I said I chose not to change my youngest ( she has their dads but our oldest has mine) so I was different in that I was going to change it to my surname not a partners but I still just left it and I’ve explained to the kids why they have different surnames (as kids do ask it doesn’t mean someone is putting it in their head!)

@drspouse

Why don't you all change your surname to YOUR family name? Then everyone would share a name, it wouldn't be one that your ex could object to (especially as you weren't married when your DCs were born). If this went to court then it seems really unlikely they'd object.

Alternatives might be:
You and DH double barrel your family name and his family name, youngest DC does the same, older two have your family name.
DH double barrels as does youngest, everyone else has your family name.
Adults double barrel, children have your family name.

Or are we going to get into "I don't like my name" or "DH would never go for that" sexist excuses?

Those children have had a surname for a number of years. Whether their parents were married is nothing to do with it. A court would not want to cause the potential psychological harm to these children of changing their names now for no clear reason.

Double barrel is an option especially as it wouldn't feel like we are trying to erase their dad from the equation, which could cause unnecessary grief.

Those children have had a surname for a number of years. Whether their parents were married is nothing to do with it.

They can't both "all have the same surname" and "keep exactly the same surname they've had for a number of years".

@Unknown83

Where are you getting she’s abusing the court system?? The OP has came here asking for advice on a name change and PR for her DH and u have attacked her with no justifiable reason accused her if things you don’t have evidence of and projected your “obvious personal feelings and circumstances” on your posts to her.

A barrister wouldn't be spouting the crap you are thankfully!

She hasn’t took this to court god she hasn’t even spoke to her ex she’s asked for advice on here before deciding what to do which quite frankly is far from abusing the court system! For all you know or any of us know her ex might be fine with surname being changed and/or her DH having additional PR. Would you still be giving her the same abuse then?

If the Op came on here and said I’m changing their name wether he likes it or not and if he doesn’t agree I’m stopping contact then quite rightly I’d agree with you saying she’s provoking/antagonising albeit not as nasty but she’s not and has not!

@drspouse

Why on earth would her ex go for changing the children surname to her surname and why would the kids if they had the choice?
The time to give the children a surname was when they were born - not now that they’ve already lived with one.

You can call it sexist or not but that’s irrelevant- the fact is she agreed to call her children by his name and he clearly wanted it - why on earth do you think she can go back on that now? Maybe he will battle her to change it back again? After all they are his kids too and the kids can having changing names pending court decision until they’re 18.

The kids have a surname, it’s better for everyone to just leave it at that.

@Lalala1

Unknown 83 can call it as she sees it. After all OP has come on and given her version of “the facts” which haven’t been tested in court as a moral justification for basically erasing her children’s father from their lives and re-fathering them.

First she won’t allow more custody, then she wants to change their surname to her new husbands and give him PR. That sounds like she could purposely be alienating the kids from their father to me in the eyes of a court. At least it is worth discussing and certainly more worth discussing than giving her and another mans children (who is still in their life) her new mans surname.

Imagine a man had come on here and said, “I’ve left my partner and won’t let her have as much custody as she wants and I’m going to change my surname to my new wives and do the same for the kids - oh and by the way I’m giving my new wife parental responsibility for my kids” - basically he would be saying that his new wife would have the same name as the kids, unlike their real mother, his new wife would have more time with the kids, than their real mother and his new wife would have the same parental responsibility in law as their real mother.
He would be purposely placing his new spouse in a role of greater mothering significance than the children real mother who still wanted that role.
How would you like it if this happened to you? How do you think it would affect the children?

This is what OP wants to do. Just because she’s not “nasty” about it doesn’t make it any less wrong and if a man wanted to do it I think you would think it disgusting.

The kids have a surname, it’s better for everyone to just leave it at that.

This is your opinion, but it's not everyone's opinion (shock horror, people have different opinions) and clearly it's not the OP's opinion too or she wouldn't be asking.