Parental responsibility and changing surnames

[LivingTheLifeofMum]

I have two primary aged DC from a previous relationship which ended when DC were very young. DC have their dad's surname. They live with me as per court order and have contact with their dad.

Fast forward several years and I'm married to DH, we have a child together and we'd like us all to have the same surname.

DH has grown up as a father figure to DC and he would also love to have parental responsibility for them.

So what I'm asking you wise bunch is: do any of you have any experience of applying or gaining parental responsibility for a step parent and / or changing your children's surname. We'd like to know if it's worth applying for and how likely we are to succeed.

I'm glad you're holding off until your children are of an age where they can make an informed decision.
I think it's unlikely a court would order the change or give PR given they still have a father who is in their life to some degree.

Too late now as you don't want to change your name but the obvious answer is the child gets mum's name and you don't change yours when you get married.

I'm so confused why it's so important for women and children to take the man's name but their name apparently means nothing.

@roastingmichael

I'm glad you're holding off until your children are of an age where they can make an informed decision. I think it's unlikely a court would order the change or give PR given they still have a father who is in their life to some degree.

Too late now as you don't want to change your name but the obvious answer is the child gets mum's name and you don't change yours when you get married.

I'm so confused why it's so important for women and children to take the man's name but their name apparently means nothing.

To be honest if this was my situation I wouldn't mind my kids either taking their mother's maiden name or a double barrel of both our names. What I would fight like hell to stop is their taking the name of a third party and the reason I would do so is because it would insinuate I had less involvement in my children's lives than some other man who could just be a cocklodger with my ex wife for all I knew.

@Unknown83

You only know the little information I have provided because I deliberately didn't elaborate on the emotional abuse aspect. I mentioned it only to give the thread some context and its readers a background.

Ex P took me to Court, we both had a barrister for final hearing. He didn't get what he requested and the Court specifically said the children were to live with me. Even at the time this was rare, as usually they wouldn't have specified this on grounds of fairness. I also didn't elaborate on the abuse in Court, we went to Court because he applied out of the blue, because I would not attend mediation (not advisable where there is abuse) and he would not communicate via our solicitors re: his contact.

Emotional abuse was quite "new" until five or six years ago and actually I didn't really know anything about it. It was only when SS got involved that my eyes were opened. They were involved as the emotional abuse turned physical on one occasion and police were called. However police at the time would only prosecute if I allowed them to (now they would prosecute regardless) and I didn't because I just wanted to get out of the relationship and didn't have the strength to go into all that as DC were babies. It was very messy and the toughest thing I have ever gone through.

Post split I read: Why Does He Do That? as it was recommended on here. FWIW it said in there that the vast majority of women who say they have suffered emotional abuse are NOT lying, so maybe you should bear that in mind. Five years earlier your comments would have broken me.

@Unknown83

Also, what exP asked for was essentially every single Friday and Saturday and Saturday night with the children (they were babies at the time). He was not interested in any negotiation, nor would he accept his proposal was unfair. When I wouldn't agree, he served me with Court papers.

He didn't win.

[quote LivingTheLifeofMum]@Unknown83

You only know the little information I have provided because I deliberately didn't elaborate on the emotional abuse aspect. I mentioned it only to give the thread some context and its readers a background.

Ex P took me to Court, we both had a barrister for final hearing. He didn't get what he requested and the Court specifically said the children were to live with me. Even at the time this was rare, as usually they wouldn't have specified this on grounds of fairness. I also didn't elaborate on the abuse in Court, we went to Court because he applied out of the blue, because I would not attend mediation (not advisable where there is abuse) and he would not communicate via our solicitors re: his contact.

Emotional abuse was quite "new" until five or six years ago and actually I didn't really know anything about it. It was only when SS got involved that my eyes were opened. They were involved as the emotional abuse turned physical on one occasion and police were called. However police at the time would only prosecute if I allowed them to (now they would prosecute regardless) and I didn't because I just wanted to get out of the relationship and didn't have the strength to go into all that as DC were babies. It was very messy and the toughest thing I have ever gone through.

Post split I read: Why Does He Do That? as it was recommended on here. FWIW it said in there that the vast majority of women who say they have suffered emotional abuse are NOT lying, so maybe you should bear that in mind. Five years earlier your comments would have broken me.[/quote]
I'm not really keen to discuss your split further because you are making yourself look even worse. A man who the court thought perfectly capable of having regular contact with his kids was so awful that you refused to do mediation?

And the old classic "turned violent" just once. Was that at a time convenient to your case by any chance? I note you chose not to prosecute (balance of probabilities was enough wasn't it?)

I'm afraid the statistics on lying are highly speculative too. You can prove anything with statistics when they are self reported. When legal aid cuts came in, suddenly there was a 50% surge in people accusing their partners of abuse for example. Coincidence? Well, a number of senior judges from the Family Courts didn't think so and now genuine victims find it even harder to prove their cases.

Also, abusers are often unaware of their behaviour and it is common for them to falsely report their ex through a lack of self awareness and need to keep control. Some of the things you have done or intend to do - like needless antagonism over the children's names, forcing your ex to go to court to see his children etc - certainly look controlling to me.

I barely know you but I have much more reason to not believe you than reasons for why I should I'm afraid.

@Unknown83

You don't know me but you have decided to make an assumption about my character based on my past which you know nothing about.

The violent episode was prior to the separation and there was physical photographic evidence that was provided to the police. The reason I didn't bring all this up in Court was on the advice of my solicitor (I was not entitled to Legal Aid) as she basically said that short of my ex being a murderer, he would get contact regardless. This was especially true as he hadn't physically harmed the children.

@Unknown83

I have just read your thread about your ex wife "Spousal Maintenance" and seen how you talk about her. You are clearly a very bitter man and I hope your ex wife takes you to the cleaners.

I also don't believe she had "multiple affairs" whilst raising three young children. That is a demanding job.

You sound like my ex!

You were abusive. The signs are all there.

My parents split when I was very young after my dad was very abusive to my mum. My mum didn’t change our names once she remarried even though we had zero contact with our dad. To this day I still have my first surname. Regardless that it was my dads name whom I have nothing to do with or have any respect for….is is ‘my’ name. I don’t associate it with him and my siblings also kept their first surname, even after marriage.
I can not stress enough how important I personally feel that you do not progress with this or even discuss it further with your children. They can make their own minds up when they are older enough and without any influence from you or your husband. Let them have their identity and freedom to make their own choice. My mum did and that why she is my hero, we know who we are as a family and that having different names make absolutely no difference.

OP just ignore @Unknown83 it’s not worth the typing he hasn’t walked in your shoes only you know

U haven’t needlessly antagonised your ex over this from your posts it sounds like you’ve not been mentioned it to your ex so @unknown83 is making it up as he goes along .U came asking for advice about changing their surname and u have been gave good advice and you have took that advice by the sounds of it. Good luck to you and your kids in the future

The fact that you are hoping a man gets “taken to the cleaners” (delightful) while on a thread about changing your children’s surname from your ExP to their stepfathers and giving him Parental responsibility - despite the face the father is still involved in their lives speaks volumes about your attitude toward your children and fathers in general. You clearly see the children as yours and if you want to re-father them you have absolutely no moral problem with that at all.
The problem is they have a father and they know it and so does he.

You say you should be able to do this because you are the main carer - but it’s you who wanted through the courts to be the main carer.

This is a women forum and as such many answers tend to be a little biased to take the woman’s side, but even here you are being universally panned for wanting to do this - that should tell you something.
It’s very likely you already knew this and just wanted validation of what you wanted to do which is why you posted here.
You should not be making a decision like this based on a handful of opinion online opinions on one site.
Especially when you have sought out the opinions of the people who are most likely to agree with you (and even they almost 100% don’t).
If Mumsnetters don’t agree with you doing this how do you think you wanting to change Children’s surnames would be taken by the general population and by grown adults who are kids of seperation and by separated fathers (not that you would consider that important apparently).

Frankly you and your new Partner should be ashamed of yourselves for even thinking this was remotely appropriate to do to your AND your Ex partners kids.

Thanks @Lalala1 that is kind of you.

No I have never spoken to exP about changing the DC surname to my married name or about DH having parental responsibility. It's just something that DH and I have discussed privately, and ok, it may not be appropriate according to many on here - for reasons that I totally appreciate - but DH and I have been together for a long time and who can blame us for wanting to explore our family to have the same family name when the DC live with us? Or for wanting DH, who is a father to the DC more nights per week than their biological dad, to have recognition that he's such a significant person in their life.

ExP does pay maintenance (begrudgingly via CMS - he has appealed every single yearly review they have ever made) but DH financially provides much much more for them than what we get from ExP, he absolutely dotes on them. He works full time and pays for a lot of their things, whereas ExP went part time after we separated to reduce maintenance payments. ExP does the "disney dad" stuff, DH does the real parenting and ExP is more than happy with that set up!

The irony is, if I'd written a post about ExP, the replies would undoubtedly have said that he doesn't deserve to see his DC, and in all honesty he doesn't. The abuse he subjected me to was so horrific that I do believe if it had happened say 3-4 years later, when emotional abuse was taken more seriously, he would have significantly less contact than he does now and almost definitely a criminal record. I developed PTSD after the separation and physically, despite being previously fit snd healthy, I became quite ill as my immune system hit rock bottom. He sought to destroy the mother of his DC. He had virtually no contact at the time (he only wanted them three hours each week) as his days were filled with trying to bring me down. His statement to Court was one big criticism of me. I remember reading the statement about what a crap mother I was whilst trying single handedly to look after two tiny children, both still in nappies. He also referred me maliciously to Social Services at the same time (this was dismissed but again a tough thing to go through). All this was many years ago and I have moved on with the help of my family and my lovely DH, but ExP really doesn't deserve the title "dad" in my humble opinion.

Anyway, I have gone off on a tangent. We have taken all the comments on board and have decided not to pursue PR as DH doesn't need this to love them like his own children, which he does. As for the name change, we will not seek to change their surnames and will let them choose for themselves when they are old enough. It was particularly interesting to read comments from those of you who have had names changed by parents in the past, and that gave us additional food for thought. Thank you for this. 😌

“ExP doesn’t deserve the title Dad in my opinion”
That is for your children to decide just as it’s for them to decide to change their life long surname.

From your post about your Ex going to the courts with one long criticism of your parenting skills it sounds like he actually did try to get more custody.

Your new partner making more money than your childrens father still doesn’t make him their actual father - him caring for them still doesn’t make him their real father. You need to accept that they have a father - the one you chose for them. You can re-choose your partner and a new father for new kids but you can’t re-chose your kids father once they’re born no matter how much you want to.

You can’t erase the fact your kids have a father your not with and act as though your not a blended family which comes from a separated one. This is and always will be your and your kids reality. You need to accept that.

There's not a chance this would be granted in court.

They have contact with their dad.

My dc's dad has never been involved and there's not a chance I would be able to get his PR revoked.

Why would you want to take their father out of their life in such a way?

@Ploppingperp06

I didn't apply to the Court for anything- ex P is the one who took me to Court (asking for three nights per week, Thursday to Sunday each week) - nor did I ask to be resident parent, it was just written into the final Order by the Court. My solicitor said it was unusual for them to do that.

Incidentally during the second hearing the panel said they sided with me and encouraged him to work with me to establish a pattern of contact before he got a decision he didn't like from the Court. He wasn't interested in negotiating and stormed out, saying he'd wait to hear what they said in the third hearing.

He got a decision he didn't like in the third and final hearing!

@user97533676

I wasn't trying to get his PR revoked!! 🤦🏻‍♀️ Just contemplating applying for my DH to have parental responsibility in addition to their dad as he is their stepdad.

[quote LivingTheLifeofMum]@user97533676

I wasn't trying to get his PR revoked!! 🤦🏻‍♀️ Just contemplating applying for my DH to have parental responsibility in addition to their dad as he is their stepdad.
[/quote]
Nonsense. They have 2 parents physically present in their life, no one else needs PR.

Why is only a man's surname good enough?Why ever did you not double barrell your children or give them your family name at birth .You birthed them after all.Us female folk really don't value ourselves!

You talk lovingly of your parent's marriage,that is the surname you should have given your children.It is 50% of their identity/genetics and belonged to the most important person in their life,which is you.Don't give them a surname they have no genetic link to.Maybe double barrell yours, with your maiden name and add your maiden name to your children's name.

Before anybody pipes up:Spain doesn't seem to have a problem with double barrelled people marrying one another and ending up with quadruple barreled babies.That is just in female mumsnetters minds,as a reason, babies should have their fathers name.

Right but you could have given him those three nights a week if you had of wanted. The fact that you went to court at all despite him wanting significantly more time with his kids means that you did use the courts to get the custody which you wanted.

If you both had of agree to 4 nights for you and 3 for him you needn’t have even gone to court. Not saying that would have been right for your kids, but my point is that he wanted to be a more actively involved father and you are the reason that didn’t happen - the courts didn’t force that on you as you didn’t even need to go to court and once there could have agreed to give him more time. So for you to now want to change his kids names because he isn’t involved is very rich.

I don’t know your Ex or you so I can’t say what is the truth of your relationship or the relationship between him and his kids (and your hardly an unbiased source on these points), the point is the father of your kids quite literally tried to have more contact and parenting time with his kids - you didn’t want that and it was you, via the courts who stopped it, you are not a passive passenger at the whim of the court so don’t act like it - and then after having done this you are trying to change your kids surname to your new husbands and give him PR.

So to sum up - you split from the father of your kids, he wants more custody which you don’t accept (hence the courts involvement at all) you now want to change his and your children’s names to your husbands and give your husband PR.

So in essence you have not only stopped your kids from seeing their father more, you actually want to act as though he isn’t their father by changing their name and giving a new man PR.

Your children having a different father is your fantasy not you and his children’s and it’s a fantasy which can never be reality.

@Euridicefortuna

That’s something for her to think about with the new children though. She already gave her children a surname which they have had their entire lives.
I feel it’s quite wrong to throw this on the kids at this point and not something they’re likely to embrace later on.
Far better to concentrate on giving them a happy home than worry about changing names at this point. After all this is all for OP - changing their own names isn’t even on these kids radar.

@titchy

Not a lawyer but.... highly unlikely a court would agree to the name change. However I do believe it is might be possible for a court to agree to your dh having pr in addition to the pr currently held by you and your ex.

Not a lawyer but you're still happy to give an opinion on what a court would do? Not helpful.

Did you not consider this before you changed your name to your husbands? Surely you knew you’d have different surnames then and were fine with it?

Your DC only have 1 dad so I’m not sure why they’ve been encouraged or allowed to call your husband dad when he isn’t. You need to be careful of applying to court for this as their father may claim parental alienation given the fact they call another man dad. The court may also take the view that by granting your husband PR, the pair of you have more control over your decisions for the children as a 2-1 vote and this would also be more fuel for the alienation claims.

I don’t see any reason why your husband needs PR when they already have 2 parents in their lives. I assume he lives with them, but he doesn’t need to make educational or medical decisions for them as he isn’t their parent.

@Elbie79 my own solicitor seemed to think we had a good chance to obtain additional PR for my DH when I asked a few years ago.

We didn't want to apply for that when we were newly married though and thought it would be better to wait awhile to show that DH was an established part of DC lives, that we weren't applying on a whim.

We won't be applying for his PR anyway now, but I thought I'd point out that my solicitor in no way suggested this wasn't possible. I did mention the surname at the time and I believe she said that was trickier. Hence I started this post. I was interested in hearing different views of those who had been in a similar situation.

@LivingTheLifeofMum how he treated you and how much he earns and pays is completely irrelevant. The fact is, your husband isn’t their dad and he doesn’t need parental responsibility. Why would young children need to have the same surname as a man they’re not related too?

Did you not consider this before you changed your name to your husbands? Surely you knew you’d have different surnames then and were fine with it?

I wasn't married to DC dad, so I always had a different surname to them. The intention was that we'd get married at "some point" and at the time he wanted them to have his surname.

@LivingTheLifeofMum so why is it important to have the same name as them now?